Are we taking bets yet on when mass civil unrest will begin re. Cost of living?

[UsernameInTheTown]

Having frozen my backside off these past two days as I'm terrified to have the heating on longer than an hour a day, I'm thinking that this will be utterly intolerable come next Winter. Will there be mass civil unrest and the guillotine rolled out while the affluent are targeted by the desperate and those with nothing left to loose?

If only we were French, instead we are out on a limb- no European friends, nowhere to escape, rising energy costs with pitiful measures for support, our PM is nowhere to be seen and our Chancellor is smiling like it's all sunshine and rainbows. I'm another that has no sympathy for the Turkeys who voted for Christmas and will continue to do so.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

The fact that we have this type of market for energy is our democratic choice and can't be changed quickly (without radical political change and huge economic consequences)

Yes.

I have to admit there's a horrible side of my personality that is finding it difficult to empathise and is in full on shouting 'told you so' at the back of my mind. We've elected free-market consumerist governments over and over and been happy to live on the never-never for decades, buying houses priced way over their actual value, buying cars and luxury goods on tick that we honestly don't have the money for, and heating our homes like tropical saunas because of cheap fuel.

Well this is the chickens coming home to roost.

If you were happy to elect governments to run the country on borrowing so you could have an artificially propped up standard of living, you have a brass neck complaining when the entire house of cards collapses and you are left in the shit.

That's the nub of it really. Standards of living in the UK have been kept artificially subsidised by the public's deliberate insouciance when it comes to UK government intransigence and continual borrowing in order to mask decades of financial mismanagement. In short, we get the politicians we vote for, and the policies we deserve. This crisis is as much the fault of the UK public as it is the politicians themselves, because we've been happy to skim off the fat before now with no thought as to where in was inevitably going to end up.

Blaming Brexit and Covid doesn't wash either. The UK public voted for Brexit, and while it's not true that Covid could have easily been foreseen, a country that wilfully ignores all advice on Pandemic planning because of cost really deserves everything it gets.

Bingo.

I tend to agree this is very much our self inflicted political system colliding with a ‘perfect storm’ combination of Brexit, Covid, Ukraine and a broken global supply chain. Vast numbers of the population are essentially screwed unlike never before but with no light at the end of the tunnel.

It’s going to get a lot worse and the overall standard of living for a huge chunk of the working class is going to fall through the floor, the question is > how long will it be before something gives?

@flopseyR72 agree with you that the ridiculous inflation of house prices has caused such economic damage.

I think I there will be pockets of unrest/rioting. I live in Bristol and have lived through several riots and major protests. They've generally been sparked by an incident involving the police but poverty and deprivation and very pissed off and angry people are at the heart of it.

It’s going to get a lot worse and the overall standard of living for a huge chunk of the working class is going to fall through the floor, the question is > how long will it be before something gives?

What's also pretty frightening is what you end up with when the public eventually decides enough is enough.

30 years of industrial decline and abuse of the working classes gave us Thatcher (spit). Thatcherism and runaway free-market capitalism has given us a debt crisis coupled with a cost of living crisis.

I think we are going to see the ultimate end-goal of Brexit arrive much more quickly than anticipated, i.e. the 'race to the bottom' with working class Brits reduced to wage-slaves, tolerating appalling conditions in order to be able to eat, and the unemployed used as physical labour in return for inadequate welfare payments. Anyone who thinks that isn't what was driving Brexit hasn't been paying attention.

Nope, not going to happen.
The nation sat idly by and allowed the government to impose the most damaging of covid restrictions, without complaint.
Noone gives a shit about anything, they're too busy watching cat videos on TikTok.

@UsernameInTheTown

Having frozen my backside off these past two days as I'm terrified to have the heating on longer than an hour a day, I'm thinking that this will be utterly intolerable come next Winter. Will there be mass civil unrest and the guillotine rolled out while the affluent are targeted by the desperate and those with nothing left to loose?

Usually these days the only time protests happens, seems to be set groups, as for the public at large, give them Britains got talent, or in General day time tv, or pop songs, or getting drunk etc, then would they really begin to protest ?

@ivykaty44

Extinction rebellion isn't helping either

They want warm homes for all and the government to fund this through upgraded insulation etc

You suggesting people would rather be cold?

I think @woodhill is talking about letting ordinary folks' tyres down.

You wouldn't want that to happen to you when you want to get to the office, the hospital or school?

@ivykaty44

Alternatively, they could tax the oil companies and prevent these distressing rises. It’s like living in Dickens.

No, this government has rejected a one off tax this week… then the oil companies make a donation

You want to nationalise power. That is what you are saying.

Rioting did actually force that bitch Thatcher to backtrack on the Poll Tax.

People using food banks has been going on years. Apparently we accept this. The time for rioting has passed. There isn't any sense of society and collective voice, we are all just individuals feeling helpless. There's also an inability to see how the Conservatives have allowed all this to happen, they are seen as natural rulers and the weak Labour party doesn't help.

The poll tax is old news and plenty of mners were very young / not born when they happened, so only know what they've been told anyway.
Riots don't solve anything they only disrupt ordinary peoples lives and businesses.

Not sure about riots or civil unrest I think us Brits lost our grit after the industries were closed down.
From what I remember the poll tax and the closing of the mines were the last time we had any real unrest.
Crime is going to escalate though for sure, people are going to get more and more desperate.

@ImplementingTheDennisSystem

Nope, not going to happen. The nation sat idly by and allowed the government to impose the most damaging of covid restrictions, without complaint. Noone gives a shit about anything, they're too busy watching cat videos on TikTok.

Well that's bullshit. The nation, and MN, was screaming and shouting for restrictions. Even more draconian than we had. We should have had them longer, we should have started sooner etc etc. The government was pushed by the people and the media to follow the global herd.

To answer the question - October 2022.

By then Covid will be high and despite further jabs and minimal hospitalisations most of the civil service will not want to return to offices so will go on strike. Perhaps as soon as September. If not already.

I understood that Insulate Britain only want it for social housing?

The government isn't just a big piggy Bank of cash, their income is derived from taxation.
You can't just tax the rich more, 90% of tax receipts are from the top 50% earners. The top 1% pay 25% of tax receipts.
The current situation is NOT due to mismanagement of the nation, it's a culmination of events, war sanctions and Covid all if which have increased the price of energy. Rioting is not going to reduce the price of fuel or allow the government to just hand out money.
Thus situation is long term until more renewable sources come on stream. A shame successive U.K. governments shunned nuclear power which would help immensely to kurb fossil fuel dependency.
It's not easy for many, perhaps we need to go back to a simpler more basic way of life.

That's the nub of it really. Standards of living in the UK have been kept artificially subsidised by the public's deliberate insouciance when it comes to UK government intransigence and continual borrowing in order to mask decades of financial mismanagement.

I agree with what you've said but the pedant in me feels bound to point out that it isn't borrowing per se which is the issue. The French (for example) are happy to borrow but they invest far more in captial infrastructure and education so they are more productive.

Now if we: invested a lot, long term, in capital infrastructure, education and healthcare, taxed the rich a bit more, regulated inefficient markets better and put aside money for crises such as this- just think where we'd be in a few decades.

Germany, that's where, and nobody wants that. So just suck up your price rises and stop complaining, like decent patriotic Brits.

We are very lucky in this household, and even we are stressed about rising costs (gas and electricity up to over £600pcm for example, more than doubling).

If the pips are squeaking for us, then (as I keep saying to my husband), there will be a critical mass in a genuinely dire situation and unable to manage.

It’s a dreadful time for people, and I could weep for those choosing between heating and eating (or making similar awful choices).

We’re not Russia, we count ourselves as Western and well-off: come on then HM Government, pull your finger out please. Now is the time.

We should take back control of energy and utility companies, including all water companies, and the Dartford Crossing, all of which were owned by us in the not too distant past. I believe it was Margaret Thatcher who started privatisation. Hedge funds are also scooping up estate agents and children’s homes etc and are only interested in profits.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

And what exactly will rioting achieve. It's not achieved anything in the past

Bought Thatcher down with the poll tax riots.

People seem more concerned demonstrating about 5G chips being inserted. Priorities…

None of the rights we have today were handed to us on a plate. We fought for them.

@Malibuismysecrethome

We should take back control of energy and utility companies, including all water companies, and the Dartford Crossing, all of which were owned by us in the not too distant past. I believe it was Margaret Thatcher who started privatisation. Hedge funds are also scooping up estate agents and children’s homes etc and are only interested in profits.

I'm not an expert but to then run these companies would require more capital which would then need to be raised via more taxes on the public ?

@SmellyOldOwls

Maybe just don't vote Tory? Is that an option?

Precisely - there are local elections in may

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

And what exactly will rioting achieve. It's not achieved anything in the past

Bought Thatcher down with the poll tax riots.

People seem more concerned demonstrating about 5G chips being inserted. Priorities…

Yes, I was going to say the poll tax riots did achieve their purpose. People need to riot with the aim of getting energy companies renationalised and the sooner the better.

Hopefully, it’s started, if the miles of lorry drivers and their artic lorries I just drove past on the M20 are anything to go by.