Holiday with tight sibling

[TiredyWiredy]

Every couple of years, we have a family type holiday.

It would be for me (female but not relevant), my brother (single), one or two of our parents and my 2 children. Brother and I do not have a relationship. We barely speak on the phone once a year. On the other hand, brother and I speak to parents daily.

To avoid drip feeding, we are all relatively comfortable with individual salaries of between 50k to 100k.

Last time we went on holiday, I paid all the hotels. I don't mind paying for parents but fully expected brother to pay me back. We took turns paying for dinner. During the whole holiday, brother paid for 1 takeaway pizza for us all to share and said that he was happy to buy more if needed. Of course, no one asked for more.

When we came back, he never contacted me. He kept
on telling parents that he owed me £xxx for hotel fir weeks. Eventually, DM told him that it was OK and I would not miss the money. (!!!!)

On other occasions, brother will want to eat at cheapest places unless parents offer to pay for him.

To be honest, I don't want to be out of pocket because of brother. I would much rather go on my own with my kids or/and with parents. I'm fed up of paying for someone who can afford their own stuff.

How can I approach this with parents?

What a weird set up. Why are they ALL sponging from you?

Just go on hol with your parents OP or by yourself

The app tricount is your friend. It is awesome. The group sign up and everyone enters what they pay then at the end of the trip the app tells you who you owe. Does away with the need for a "kitty" forever!

Can your parents afford to pay for their hotel? If they want the holiday it should be their treat. Don't you feel as annoyed with them?
Some odd relationships going on here, going on holiday with a brother you don't speak to and parents you're frightened of upsetting.
Just call it a day.

If it's a loose take turns situation, then surely it's your DPs turn to book and pay for the accommodation.
Therefore the easiest option is to do nothing. If your DPs really want this to happen, they will book and pay for it. I wouldn't offer money - as you paid for it all last time - if they ask, then either pay your share or ask them to ask DB as you paid for his room last time round.

I also agree with @RosesAndHellebores that your DB is likely neuro diverse. In which case your DPs and yourself are doing him no favours by not being plainly direct about when he is required to pay and what is acceptable.

I'm going to say ND too here.

This sort of thing terrifies me and I'm fairly "normal" but definitely ND too.

He's opted out of most decisions and is probably doing his best to run his own life by having a house share, etc. Your parents treat him like a child. You're supposed to play happy families and probably expected to baby him too and pick up the baton of "caring" for him.

He'll be perfectly ok if you lay it out for him clearly. He might not come either as it's probably hell for him, especially if you don't talk to him.

My sibling is all PA around me and puffs about thinking they're better than me. I'm fed up of it.

@TiredyWiredy

DCs are in my room. Last time we went on holiday was pre covid. They had baby food at the time and would maybe eat a bite from my food.

They will need own food this time, I'm happy to pay more for my kids but i don't want to subsidise brother.

Then don't subsidise him!!

It's not difficult. Just don't pay.

With friends where we have different attitudes to food/drinks/money, we’ll book all inclusive holidays so it doesn’t become an issue on the trip. People can eat and drink what they like without having to worry about a kitty.

Can you book something like this, get money from your brother up front and even round up his cost to cover any coffees or snacks you might have out and about?

I think your DB is taking advantage of being the “Golden Boy” and your parent’s attitude that discussing money is vulgar. It’s probably conveniently vulgar when it suits them, tbh. (Ie it’s not fair in your direction.)
I think you have two choices. Sit down with your parents and let them know that you are STILL owed money from the last holiday. You haven’t ever been in a position to pay for him, and it is not their decision to make what you can and can’t afford. You have children to support and you are not going to subsidize a full-grown man with a very well-paying job at their expense. Your DB can either pay you back now or he can pay your half of this year’s holiday.

Ask everyone for the money before you book. And have a discussion about who pays for your parents - 50/50 with your brother seems fair if they are jot paying for themselves. Ask for separate bills when you eat out. Not hard.

When I've been away with family we use a WhatsApp group, decide on accommodation type, budget and cost splitting, find somewhere suitable, I then book everything and they transfer the money by the date required. For food there I suggest you either have a kitty you all put into then buy things or allocate certain nights to each pay - my single brother paid one night, my brother in a couple twice and I paid the rest (my parents usually pay for the accommodation)

I read your posts OP and read all but the last two pages so apologies if I've missed something relevant.
So many irritations here.

The mistake you made was not making everything clear up front. But you still can make it clear.
Two siblings with similar relatively good incomes go on holiday with parents and only the daughter who also has two DC pays for their two parents? She also organises the whole thing and has ended up via her mothers intervention paying for brother as well. So you effectively paid for three extra adults?
WTF?
WhatsApp/email are your friend here. Spell it out to both parties.
Dear Bro (copy to DM)
At our last holiday which I organised and paid for in advance. I also paid for our parents. You still haven't paid me for your share of the accommodation. The amount you owe me is XXX here are my bank details.
You also offered to pay your share of evening meals, but the upshot was that I paid for everything except for the time you paid for a pizza meal.
You have a good income and unlike me no dependents. It is unfair for you and our parents to expect me to keep subsidizing you like this.
Our parents want another holiday together.

If this takes place it must be understood that you pay your own costs in full and I also think you should contribute to our parents costs as I have been doing this on my own all this time up till now.

Its probably going to kick up a fuss but that is the only way to proceed. If they can't see that this is unequal they need to wise up because you are being exploited here. What a fabulous get out clause for your mother to say its vulgar to talk about money when she lets you pay for 3 adults holidays.
I don't know why your parents think that you are the only one who should contribute to their holiday costs. You and your bro should split it. How has he got away with this? And also what's the deal with not speaking to you? Your DM is OK with this and expects you to facilitate him? In fact, she tells him not to pay you? That's rubbish.
You are paying double and extra again for family holidays which are expensive enough... this money could go into pensions/emergency savings/medical bills/ student savings accounts. You don't know what emergencies your family may have in future. Please Don't squander your future security this on a tightwad CF sibling who is more than capable of paying his own way but chooses not to. He can't even be bothered to communicate with you. Don't put up with this a minute longer. You are not a cash cow.

I agree with other posters that the way forward is have a family holiday with your DH and DC and take the parents away for a weekend somewhere nice instead.

Despite you not speaking that much to your brother, This is a case of you Having to speak to him now, about the money matters and how you feel about all the unfairness of his attitude towards money etc.. You have to do this with some people to get your message across.

With my brother, he literally never pays for anything!!

So, don't pay for him. Simple.

If, as some posters susoect, he is ND maybe he needs it spelling out to him rather than assuming he will pay.

Why do you and your family have so many problems with communicating clearly?

Do you talk to him when you are on holiday.
The family kitty idea is a good one.

How old is your brother? 12?!? You've got to stick up for yourself now. Why are you going on holiday with him in the first place? Just have an honest conversation with your parents. 'folks, I don't like him, I don't talk to him & I'm not paying for his holiday' You can't appease your parents for the sake of it. 💕

Set up a what’s ap group. Parents, brother, you.
Book hotel and flights for your family. Tell them the dates you’re booking. Then everyone books for themselves. You split meals - per family.

@TiredyWiredy

This is spot on. There is no communication between brother and I.

Brother cannot organise anything. He is not disabled, just... lazy! Parents asked me to book stuff and brother will reimburse his share. Or the bill will come at restaurant and he will not make a move. This embarrasses me!!!!

I genuinely don't want to spend time with brother.
Parents attitude is that they are getting old and love this idea of of a family holiday. I do it not to let then down.

If they insist on holiday, i will ask for advance payment from brother before booking anything. Or is this rude?

No, it’s not rude! Don’t book anything for him unless he pays in advance.

What jobs pay £50k and £70k and require no communication skills? It’s bizarre, just say the words out loud. Brother you owe me £X, here are my bank details, please pay by tomorrow at 6pm. Brother, it’s your turn to pay the restaurant bill. Parents I don’t speak to my brother I don’t want to go on holiday with him let alone pay for him.

@CeeceeBloomingdale

What jobs pay £50k and £70k and require no communication skills? It’s bizarre, just say the words out loud. Brother you owe me £X, here are my bank details, please pay by tomorrow at 6pm. Brother, it’s your turn to pay the restaurant bill. Parents I don’t speak to my brother I don’t want to go on holiday with him let alone pay for him.

Your post made me smile, bit you are 100% right.

Basically, my parents treat brother in a strange way. There are times when I brought things up with brother and my mother would be upset as I'm "too direct" with brother.

I suspect that brother is ND too.

I get it tbh, I have a similar relationship with my brother and he is rather babied by my parents. He is also possibly ND. That is in your favour, most ND people are very black and white, there is little grey. Being direct will help him understand how to behave and how other expect him to behave (eg in paying his own way). Honestly, just message him and TELL him he has to pay you back or pay for all the rooms this time. Tell him he has to contribute to meals. If your mother is saying you can afford it and you aren’t addressing that with your bother he may not even realise it’s a problem. Tell him clearly, without fluff or apology, ideally in email or text so he can refer back to it. Do not leave anything open to interpretation.

@TiredyWiredy

This is spot on. There is no communication between brother and I.

Brother cannot organise anything. He is not disabled, just... lazy! Parents asked me to book stuff and brother will reimburse his share. Or the bill will come at restaurant and he will not make a move. This embarrasses me!!!!

I genuinely don't want to spend time with brother.
Parents attitude is that they are getting old and love this idea of of a family holiday. I do it not to let then down.

If they insist on holiday, i will ask for advance payment from brother before booking anything. Or is this rude?

Either do this...

Or just arrange the hotels, and then pass over the payment details to him.

DO NOT LET HIM GET AWAY WITH NOT PAYING FOR LAST HOLIDAY OR THIS ONE!!

Shame him into doing this...

By not doing anything you're facilitating his poor behaviour

Start a WhatsApp group for you all and put a link on the group asking him to book x many rooms at a specific hotel linked.

Then suggest a kitty in advance of the holiday