Holiday with tight sibling

[TiredyWiredy]

Every couple of years, we have a family type holiday.

It would be for me (female but not relevant), my brother (single), one or two of our parents and my 2 children. Brother and I do not have a relationship. We barely speak on the phone once a year. On the other hand, brother and I speak to parents daily.

To avoid drip feeding, we are all relatively comfortable with individual salaries of between 50k to 100k.

Last time we went on holiday, I paid all the hotels. I don't mind paying for parents but fully expected brother to pay me back. We took turns paying for dinner. During the whole holiday, brother paid for 1 takeaway pizza for us all to share and said that he was happy to buy more if needed. Of course, no one asked for more.

When we came back, he never contacted me. He kept
on telling parents that he owed me £xxx for hotel fir weeks. Eventually, DM told him that it was OK and I would not miss the money. (!!!!)

On other occasions, brother will want to eat at cheapest places unless parents offer to pay for him.

To be honest, I don't want to be out of pocket because of brother. I would much rather go on my own with my kids or/and with parents. I'm fed up of paying for someone who can afford their own stuff.

How can I approach this with parents?

Tell your parents you will only be paying for your own expenses this year and you think it's better if everyone pays their own way at the time since settling up later just didn't work out.

And stick to it.

Ffs, grow a pair. Why would you put your kids through that kind of atmosphere? Your parents are dicks for enabling this.

Parents asked me to book stuff and brother will reimburse his share

In that case it's perfectly simple; just tell your parents that you'll book for yourself and them, but not for your brother because he simply doesn't pay, and then ignore any "Buts ..."

Personally I wouldn't want to go at all with someone you're constantly avoiding, but while your parents can choose what they want to happen that doesn't mean you're obliged to go along with it

I'm sorry OP but you know the answer to this one. Validation from us is just common sense and is exactly what you are thinking right? So go do it. Step away and have a couple of nights with your parents (without brother) instead.

If they want brother to experience a holiday (WTAF?), then let them pay for him and wipe his arse and feed him, the poor baby.

Does this brother work/live independently? Oh yes, he is a user covering it with faux ineptitude, I forgot.

If they insist on holiday, i will ask for advance payment from brother before booking anything. Or is this rude?

This is so far from 'rude' that it's off the scale. When I share costs with friends, we pay each other back as soon as the cost is incurred, even if it was paid by credit card so there is a 'free' period.

What would stop you from set setting out, with no drama or emotion upset, just what you say above. Happy to arrange the hotel, I'll get onto it as soon as I receive your contribution.

For me, this way works better than telling parents who like having you all together that you prefer to go without your brother. It's a win win for you, either he (finally) pays up or you don't book anything.

If your parents object, they will at least have to own their objection, which would then be acknowledged as an objection to making your brother pay his own way.

That would be the point at which to mention you did miss his contribution for the last holiday.

Good luck.

I am assuming your brother is well of mind and body?
I think you should stop paying for him ever again.
My family did this to me for years then disappeared when i lost my high paying consulting due to covid.
He's a grown up.
I don't speak to my sister due to her meanness (tongue and purse).
Give yourself a break. Resentment doesn't make for a happy holiday.

Do you not even talk to your brother when he is with you on holiday? Don't your parents notice that you don't speak? What is the back story? What kind of example is this for your children?

Sorry not sorry for all the questions, but I'm totally baffled that you go on holiday with someone you don't speak to and that you can't even ask for the money that is owed you

Are you scared of him? Why haven't your parents said anything?

Stupidly, I missed that you've been paying all hotel costs, including your parents', and I wonder why this is since you're all comfortably off?

It also changes my view about it being up to your parents around what they want to happen. Since you're paying for them that would be you (though obviously you'll take their wishes into account up to a point, but hopefully not when it involves enabling a moocher)

@Myee

I'm sorry OP but you know the answer to this one. Validation from us is just common sense and is exactly what you are thinking right? So go do it. Step away and have a couple of nights with your parents (without brother) instead.

If they want brother to experience a holiday (WTAF?), then let them pay for him and wipe his arse and feed him, the poor baby.

Does this brother work/live independently? Oh yes, he is a user covering it with faux ineptitude, I forgot.

Brother has a well paid job!!! He's on ~£70k with literally no outgoings. His job is in another town or he would have lived with parents. He lives in a student-type house share.

Use your words. Surely your parents know you and your brother have zero relationship, so it won’t be a huge shock to them that you won’t be subsidising him any further. Tell them they’re welcome to come on holiday with your family, or you and your family + your parents. If they don’t like either of those options, oh well.

Just because your parents have pandered to him all his life you don’t have to.
I would be telling them the holidays are too uncomfortable for your family and you resent having to pay for everything for him as he never ever repays you.

Being a wet lettuce is expensive, OP. Either suck it up or grow a backbone.

What’s the massive drip feed re your brother? Why do you both have a good relationship with your parents but no relationship at all with each other?
You say your parents want these trips because it’s important to them to have a family holiday, yet then you say you don’t speak to your brother at all? Hardly a cosy family gathering.
Just don’t go away with him again! Your parents must know you don’t speak. Book a trip away for you and your parents and let brother do the same (or not) himself.
And learn to speak up for yourself.

Op, your parents need to sort this.

Say your not comfort paying again When you can be spending on your own DC.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Stupidly, I missed that you've been paying all hotel costs, including your parents', and I wonder why this is since you're all comfortably off?

It also changes my view about it being up to your parents around what they want to happen. Since you're paying for them that would be you (though obviously you'll take their wishes into account up to a point, but hopefully not when it involves enabling a moocher)

My parents have a weird mentality that they do not talk about money and it's vulgar to do so. They are well off. We take turns when we go out - so even if I pay this time, they will pay the next etc.

With my brother, he literally never pays for anything!!

@TiredyWiredy

This is spot on. There is no communication between brother and I.

Brother cannot organise anything. He is not disabled, just... lazy! Parents asked me to book stuff and brother will reimburse his share. Or the bill will come at restaurant and he will not make a move. This embarrasses me!!!!

I genuinely don't want to spend time with brother.
Parents attitude is that they are getting old and love this idea of of a family holiday. I do it not to let then down.

If they insist on holiday, i will ask for advance payment from brother before booking anything. Or is this rude?

Can't they have two holidays? One with you and one with him?

Why waste a holiday on someone you don't like?

Stop going on holiday with somebody you don't speak to! I find it baffling that any adult would want to holiday with their parents & siblings, but this scenario really sounds awful for everyone involved.

Don't go on holiday with him. You don't like him, you don't speak to him, so stop being a limp noodle and refuse to pay for his holiday.

If your parents want a holiday with their son, they can sort one out separate to holidays with you an your children.

@TiredyWiredy

DCs are in my room. Last time we went on holiday was pre covid. They had baby food at the time and would maybe eat a bite from my food.

They will need own food this time, I'm happy to pay more for my kids but i don't want to subsidise brother.

And tell your mum she doesn't get to decide if you get paid back either !

I think the first thing you need to do is to realise how deeply mired you are in this madness. You're not an outside observer commenting on what happens; you're part of the dysfunction.

When you can do that, you can start to extricate yourself, because doing that is very, very simple (it just isn't easy from where you are currently).

That's a tragic case of learned helplessness.

Your parents are not doing your brother any favours by permitting this learned helplessness. It's also a very unattractive trait in anyone.

I'd just tell my parents "I'm not interested in going on a holiday with you if John is going to be there too. We don't get along, it's tragic but it's true so if he weren't actually related to me I wouldn't seek him out to spend time with him. He didn't pay me back from the last trip even though he kept going on to you about repaying me. I actually would like to be repaid but that's beside the point. If you want to go on holidays with me and the kids, I'd prefer if we could arrange a separate trip to the one you will be arranging for yourselves and John to go on. Let me know what dates you're thinking of and I'll see if it matches our calendars at all."

*not the Op's brother's name.

Don't book the hotel for him. Book for you ( and parents if you want) and send brother the details. He can book for himself if he wants to go.

Presumably if he holds down a £70k job he has the ability to book a hotel.

Assuming you more or less get on with your parents, next time just book for you + kids, and them.

If they wibble, point out that AS THEY KNOW you and your bro are completely different people, and if he had enjoyed the last holiday no doubt he would have paid you back by now out of the £70k pa that he earns as a single man with no kids. But he hasn't.
And it's daft to keep doing something that doesn't work - just because people would like things to be different doesn't make it so.

And leave it at that. Remember, if they were that keen, there would be nothing stopping them, or him, from booking transport and accommodation for the same place, and if they did it doesn't sound as if you'd object.

Don't get mad, don't get drawn in, just say what you are going to do, and then discuss something else. And good luck!

Your whole family are cheeky fuckers.

You should not be bankrolling their holidays, nor a brother that never speaks to you!! WTAH!

Why are you even going on holiday with people that you don't like.
I would take the chance, and break in covid to tell them you are going on family holidays from now on, the dc are older. And organise a weekend away with them, without your brother if you want to.

I would not be doing any of this! Your brother still owes you money from the last time, that is so unfair.

It is not rude to ask people to pay their share, you shouldn't have to ask!

It seems they aren't worried that your out of pocket and are more worried About appeasing him