DS (5) ASD eating items before we have paid for them

[Mouk]

I live near a small supermarket. For the past 7 years. It is 2 minute walk away and we have always encountered polite employees in this supermarket. I'm actually close pals with one of them. We'll call her Susan. The manager, we'll call Tom and the employee who spoke to me today, we'll call him Dave.

My son (5) enjoys accompanying me to the shop and his little routine is that he picks up a Fruit Shoot (takes the lid off) and sips on it, we then go to the ice cream freezer and he selects one, I remove the wrapper and hand the ice to him. I then place the wrapper in my basket and we continue on around the shop. When we get to the till I place all the items on the counter and pay. The cashiers always smile and offer to place the wrapper in the bin behind the tills. We have done this for at least 2 years. The staff are always friendly to my son and myself and my daughter (8) too.

Today we went over to the shop for a few items. As usual my son got his fruit shoot and his ice cream, I kept a hold of the empties and duly paid for all my items at the till (as I always do). I have never stolen anything in my whole life and don't have a criminal record. Go me! At the ripe old age of 45 I'm not gonna start now. At the till, the gentleman serving me remarked that my 2 litre container of milk was leaking. After paying he said I could go back down to the milk fridge and select a different one. I did so.

As I was selecting the milk, employee Dave approached me and said "Just to let you know, you can't do that anymore - you cannot eat items before paying for them" He of course was referencing my non verbal son but talking to me. I said "I'm sorry, I didn't know that". I then said that my son was autistic and it was his routine. Dave said "that doesn't matter, you still can't be doing that". I then said "he's 5, it's not hurting anyone". Dave said "it's what the big boss man has said". I said ok, and we left the store with the items we had paid for. I went bright red and actually felt like a criminal. When I think back, when we walked in Tom looked over at us and made eye contact with me - perhaps I'm being paranoid in hindsight.

I rang Susan afterwards to get her opinion. She is astonished that I was treated that way. She said I'm one of the long time regulars and if they had a problem with this, then why didnt they say something before now. I asked her if this was a rule. There is a secondary school 4 minutes walk away and they do not allow the teens to eat what they have purchased inside the shop as they have to limit the numbers at lunchtimes or the shop would be jam packed with students. They allow about 10 in at any one time. She said it's different with younger kids or so she thought.

I'll add that us shopping at this small supermarket has greatly helped my son with his social skills. He's learned road safety on our walk there. He knows we have to queue up to pay. He's able to walk around the shop with me without needing to hold my hand, he's no longer a flight risk, FGS he even knows how to social distance in a queue from our outings to this wonderful shop.

Susan has advised me to approach Tom politely on Monday when he's next there and ask to clarify a few things in a private area. Not in view of the general public. I wish I would have been awarded some privacy today when Dave spoke to me. Anyone could have overheard, I regularly bump into my neighbours at this shop.

1. Will it be ok for us to pay for the fruit shoot and ice cream, let my son eat and drink them while we shop, then I get to the till and purchase the rest of my items.

1. Will I always be looked at with suspision?

1. Is my son welcome in the shop. What is their policy on people with a disability. Hidden or otherwise.

YABU? (It's effectively stealing the item (i.e. eating it) before paying - son will just have to learn.
YANBU? He's 5 years old and is autistic. It's his little routine and we always pay. Manager needs to cop himself on.

You are doing your autistic child a huge failing by not parenting them. You say going shopping g has helped with his social skills but it hasn't really, has it? You have been teaching him for the past 2 years he can walk in and help himself. Now you have been told it's not ok you are asking what their disability policy is

I have an autistic son who also has a regular visit to our local supermarket. He is non verbal, SLD and to be honest doesn't grasp the concept of not eating for things till you've paid. If I went to the till with his stuff then wanted to continue shopping he would have a meltdown.
You're not harming anyone and the holier than thou MN need to get a grip. Do whatever works for you.

@parrotonthesofa

I find it incredibly irritating some posters saying well I have an asd child and he / she understands that we pay first. Well good for you but not all children with severe asd and or learning disabilities are able to comprehend this. Not saying that op's child cannot but just because your child can doesn't mean all asd children can.

If they don't understand you take a snack with you. If they need a fruit shoot going round the shop then you put one in your bag when you leave home.

What if you got to the checkout and had no means to pay? What happens then?
What if you have no cash and your card is declined, or visa is down and it's cash only?
Or youve forgotten your purse? It's stealing, however you dress it up, and it's wrong to teach kids it's ok.
I've worked in a supermarket, you wouldn't believe the amount of half eaten food staff find hidden behind the tins or whatever.

@Blimecory

«You are very much in the wrong. You have to buy the things before you eat them in a shop. It is actually against the law, too.«

No it isn’t. Theft is the intention to permanently deprive someone of their property. If you intend to pay, it is not theft.

It would be theft of e.g. grapes but that’s not what we are talking about.

I would never do this and you shouldnt have done either.

You talk about routine but that doesnt necessarily have to have involved taking the items and eating them before payment, that bit was unecessary. The routine could have been, we buy these so you can eat them now and then we get our shopping.

ASD is not a reason to teach a child anti social behaviour

FairPlay to,you OP for taking the advice given on this thread so well. I hope you son gets used to the new routine soon.
I think another bit of advice would be to try to stop feeling so embarrassed about things. Easier said than done though!

Op, not often do posters take it so well. It is a minefield parenting at the best of times, SN just adds to it all. I do think the advice of don't allow at 5 what you wouldn't allow at 18 is good advice.

Can he be given money to buy the fruit shoot in the beginning, start a new routine and help him learn how to navigate tills, or just get the receipt to hold. Good luck

Yes if course @ididntevennotice , I'm not saying there aren't solutions if they don't understand. It's just people commenting 'well my asd understand' implying 'so yours should' . It's a spectrum and they're all different and have different levels of understanding.

It's only his routine because you've taught him that that's what to do. You started it.

You shouldn't have. Now you need to undo it.

There is no reason for children to eat whilst walking around a shop. If he is hungry then feed him first.

I don’t think it’s a huge issue, but as you say there are ways round it, pay before doing the rest of the shopping etc.
I think you are doing a great job of navigating a new diagnosis.

Just shows there’s no customer care or sense of community these days at all.

It’s a small local shop, they know you’re a regular, can see what you’re doing, know you always pay, they know now your DS has a disability and it was probably visible before. You’re not hurting anyone, nothing to get worked up about at all. If it means you have a stress free shop and DS is calm, what’s the problem with facilitating that? I assume you’re not letting him drop ice cream everywhere or tip his drink on the floor? It has no effect on them at all then.

As for teaching kids you have to pay, it’s doubtful a non verbal ASD child will be going into a shop on his own anytime soon and the OP has enough to deal with as his carer now without worrying about that. It’s not as simple as changing the routine and paying for them first or taking something from home with an ASD child. I have one, I know.

They’re just knobs OP. You were doing nothing wrong. Obviously you’re going to have to stop it now. Hope it doesn’t upset DS too much .

@parrotonthesofa

Yes if course *@ididntevennotice* , I'm not saying there aren't solutions if they don't understand. It's just people commenting 'well my asd understand' implying 'so yours should' . It's a spectrum and they're all different and have different levels of understanding.

Yeah, sorry I misunderstood you!

I work in a supermarket, on the till. If I have one pet hate, it's getting empty crisp bags to put through, as they are invariably greasy and unpleasant to touch.

Having said that, most people take a bag from a multipack, so I don't have to handle the individual bag. For anything else, I really don't mind, and I'm happy to bin empty wrappers. I would rather a happy child with a fruit shoot than a child having a meltdown because they couldn't have one.

I don't think it's fair that people are comparing their child to ops. We all know that every neuro atypical child is different. Op, I hope you find a suitable way forward.

I let my DS who is NT do this at 2 of our local supermarkets. I always check I have enough cash/ battery to at least be able to let him pay for what he opens. Normally a £1 ice-lolly. He sits nice and eats it making it an enjoyable outing for all. I honestly have no idea why people care about this kind of thing, I’ve never been asked not to do it 🤷🏻‍♀️.

I’d speak to the manager, what gave you got to lose? People on here need to get out more if they think a drink and an ice lolly are theft or a health hazard 😂

I don't routinely do this but I definitely have, I remember breaking a bit off a warm baguette then paying for the whole thing, or give the kids something if they were sat in the trolley, no one ever said a thing.

My GF used to eat his grapes on the way round, which is obviously wrong as they weighed less at the end so I wouldn't do that.

However, they are well within their rights to say you can't do it. Definitely buy his fs and lolly first, then shop

People have been very kind in allowing you to do this, but it's a bit difficult for them to have it set up so that every member of staff knows you're allowed to. Also, whilst your son is little at the moment, it's going to be more difficult when he's the same age as the older kids they don't want doing it, so perhaps it's better to break the pattern now rather than later.

It's also possible that they've had some less honest customers see what you were doing, and do the same but without paying. That's difficult for them to clamp down on - until they get to the till they can't tell whether they're going to pay or not, and then it may be too late to tackle the issue.

While he is little hopefully they can allow you to buy the items and then let him have them to eat/drink while you shop - perhaps they can put some sort of sticker on to show they're already paid for.

OP you're a good mum and I'm sure your son will learn his new routine no probs. I particularly liked the idea of him handing over the money/ tapping the card for his food at the beginning of the shop. Educational and fun. Good luck with the new diagnosis. Sounds like you're way ahead of the game and will ace each curveball thrown at you

[quote Bibbetyboo]@Blimecory

«You are very much in the wrong. You have to buy the things before you eat them in a shop. It is actually against the law, too.«

No it isn’t. Theft is the intention to permanently deprive someone of their property. If you intend to pay, it is not theft.

It would be theft of e.g. grapes but that’s not what we are talking about.[/quote]
No, that’s not correct. It’s theft under the Theft Act 1968.
www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/18766027.supermarket-habit-illegal-uk/

I hate seeing people doing this its just unnecessary
Its become habit because youve allowed it to be the shop arent wrong in asking you politely to stop it now.....better to now otherwise will you still be saying it is ok because its his routine in 5/10 years?

DS6 is the same as yours, so I send DH off with him to pay for what he wants to eat while I carry on with the main shop.

I have done this with my asd toddler I don't see the problem especially as it's a local small supermarket that supposedly knows you. As most people with ASD children know it is a spectrum and every child is different so for those saying yeah I don't allow it then great but then some of us are dealing with more meltdowns and less communication than others. I will say have a word with shop manager and then explain to head office the way it is. You are not stealing until product is taken out of the store you are willingly paying for it. I can't see a problem. Would a diabetic who needs sugar quickly be penalised for doing the same?

YABU so so unreasonable. Just pay for his fruit shoot and lolly before you begin to shop? Don’t see why your son being autistic has any bearing on the situation whatsoever! You paying first won’t have any impact on his routine. How entitled, wow.

It's great that you've taken people's comments on board. That's really refreshing and bodes really well for you always doing the best for your lad.

I taught children like your DS in a special school for decades, and agree that it's really important not to set up routines that can't be maintained when the child is older (or in different circumstances like a class visit to the supermarket or a respite carer taking him to a shop). It's infinitely harder to change a learned and expected routine (especially when it involves treats) when your child is a lot older, stronger and louder in their meltdowns.

To be honest, your new plan (which is basically the same but you pay first) is still a bit tricksy. Having a froot shoot and an ice cream every single time he goes to a shop isn't ideal. But baby steps. You will probably come up with something that still occupies and rewards him that eventually leads to him coping with shops without involving eating and sugary stuff. (Welcome to the world of star charts and stickers with rewards when he gets home!)

All the best with the new routine.

One thing you learn very fast with children never start something your not willing to continue for a very very long time special needs doesn't even come into it really