Potential safeguarding issue toddler

[1potato]

Toddler is 2.5. Has never been keen on nappy changes but around 6 months ago started going nuclear during them.

His language has recently exploded and he is now vocalising his feelings around them. We've been getting:
Don't like it
Stop
I'm not bad boy. Good boy

We certainly don't use 'bad boy' at home. I flagged with nursery and was told no one uses language like that but room lead will check on everyone in room.

Tonight my mum changed my nappy and she told me he said:
Don't hurt my bottom

It made me realise he's also recently been randomly getting upset about his bottom outside the context of a nappy change too. He also hates his nappy being off during a change and wants it back on straight away and sometimes just lies there crying until it is back on.

I've been sitting here thinking it all through and I think I probably need to keep him off nursery tomorrow and look to change nurseries. I will also speak to a HV and to nursery again.

Please can anyone advise if I am taking the right steps? Or offer any other advice? Or even tell me if you think this is just a toddler being a toddler.

OP who else changes his nappy, except you and nursery?

@Papayamya
Young children do have very pictorial memories
The brutal nursery i could describe every inch of that place, the doubke doors, the toys, the food- the chestnut palings on the outside on the corner-

Children vary, but I do have a good visual memory of very early days.

And later of course.

Kids remember distressing times in clear pictures.

children do remember thing that stand out, the good the bad, the unusual.
some can remember things from very early.

Many thanks to those who have shared personal stories and I am so sorry for the pain.

Thanks to everyone for the input. It has clarified my thoughts.

Yes it could be as simple as sudocreme but it may be something much worse. I'm not going to send him back to that nursery as it simply isn't worth the risk. I'm going to contact GP and HV and NSPCC tomorrow for advice on moving forwards, before taking it up with the nursery directly if that is what is advised.

Really sorry to say this, but the grandparents?

Trust your instincts.

Someone’s obviously been saying something - there would be no need for such a small child to be “deeply ashamed” over potty training unless he had picked up somewhere that there was something to be ashamed of.
Some children dislike accidents more than others but most are quickly reassured and wouldn’t feel shame unless someone had shamed them.
Poor little fellow, definitely follow your instinct here.

Huge red flags hear I can't believe the posters saying to try potty training et first
Follow your instincts

Don't staff in most nurseries change nappies in pairs now?

Easterbunnyiswindowshopping

Please make sure you don't subconsciously ask any form of suggestive questions
. If you have further cause to be worried I would keep dc with you /dh at all times for a week or 2. If it continued I would speak to a professional.. GP or police.

I deal with child sexual abuse cases professionally, please don't call the Police. If he has good language maybe you could ask him where his bottom hurts ?. I absolutely would mention it to nursery if nothing else to protect the other children.

I wouldn't start toliet training just now, I would as far as possible be the one to do the nappy changes myself.

[quote oakleaffy]@Papayamya
Young children do have very pictorial memories
The brutal nursery i could describe every inch of that place, the doubke doors, the toys, the food- the chestnut palings on the outside on the corner-

Children vary, but I do have a good visual memory of very early days.

And later of course.

Kids remember distressing times in clear pictures.[/quote]
Agreed. My memories from this age are pictorial. I can remember loads of stuff from ages 2, 3 and 4, including abuse, and likewise can describe buildings, which I haven’t seen since then in a lot of detail.

I hope you get some answers op.

What makes you sure it’s the nursery? It could be something outside of this such as in your home, any other home he visits?

1. Write down what he says.
2. How long are your nails? Does anyone who changes him / girls at the nursery have long nails? Ask the nursery. An old nursery I worked for had an incident a while ago where the girls were allowed to wear fake nails and accidentally scratched kids during nappy changes. This is why I insist on nails being trimmed in my nursery.
3. Good boy / bad boy / don’t hurt my bottom - if he was saying this at nursery then social services and the police would already be involved because at 2.5 he would be taken care of not by a single key worker but more than one person. (It is an ofsted requirement for nappy changes to be controlled and not ‘private’). Honestly the language used makes me think it’s a close relative who may be lying to you (is your mum or his dad, for example, punishing him for needing nappy changes?). Take some time off if possible and don’t let anyone else change him around nursery - see if that improves things.
4. If you still have suspicions then write them down and contact your GP. They will refer for all the medical checks needed and refer to social services.

I think you’re right to be cautious but I wouldn’t necessarily assume anything untoward has happened. My two year old hates nappy changes with a passion and frequently tells me his bottom hurts. I know that nothing bad has happened, because he doesn’t go to childcare. In his case he’s had one case of very bad nappy rash that took a long time to heal from an upset tummy that he can still remember and it’s obviously left an impression. With the good boy/bad boy, it could be the nursery staff but it could just as easily be another child. My daughter has picked up ‘naughty boy’ from school and said it to my son enough times that he’s trying to repeat it. It’s not language we use, but they both know it and say it. Toddlers are sponges, they pick up impressions and words from everywhere.

Not dismissing your concerns at all, but if it helps, my child at just before 2yo went through a rough patch with nappy changes.

Probably triggered by being poorly, not eating/ drinking much then having a couple of really hard constipated poops which were painful.

She also refused to have her nappy changed unless standing up a few months later, linked to her leg randomly being sore during a nappy change ( it was me who changed her and I was gentle)

She struggled with pooping with potty training - wearing a pull up to poop in for ages and hiding.

I'm hoping that nothing untoward is going on with your child.

A child in the family has come back saying ‘bad boy’ after being in day care too. We don’t use that language at home either.

I think it’s possible that your DC is being changed and cleaned aggressively by staff and it’s hurting him.

What do you mean when you say he gets upset about his bottom at other times?

Thanks all. On way to A&E for a checkup as doctors can't do full check up. Pulled out of nursery but not yet explained why.

🤞🙏 it's nothing.

Thank goodness. Takes courage to act op. You have done what many should and few have the guts.
Hoping there is a logical explanation for your family op..

And to answer the question of how he's been upset outside nappy changes, he's just randomly said a few times 'oh no my bottom' and seemed very anxious. But there didn't seem to be anything obviously wrong.

Re. Potty training, he just seemed terrified of the potty. And then super upset when he had an accident. It seems strange as apparently he sits on the potty at nursery no problem.

He's definitely not constipated but has had it in the past. He's also had bad nappy rash in the past which possibly coincided with some of this upset.

It's so difficult with a toddler. There could always be around 10 different ways to explain behaviour. I guess that's why we aren't taking any risks.

The only people who change his nappy are us, his grandmother and nursery. No suspicions about partner or grandmother.

Chances are it’s something to do with potty training, like he’s overheard a nursery worker praising another child for being a “good boy” when he’s used the toilet or something like that. And maybe the “oh no my bottom” could be when he’s done a poo or wee in the nappy when he thinks maybe he “should” be doing it on the toilet instead.
The hurting bottom part could just be if he’s had a rash or even someone having to hold him a bit strongly if he’s struggling during a nappy change (mine became a nightmare around 2 and I did have to hold him firmly!)
I really hope all is fine, there are so many mad things that children say that have multiple meanings but you’re doing such a good job being an advocate for your son and listening to what he says.

Surely you are going to wait for hours and hours at A&E OP because this isn't a medical emergency?

Sudocrem is nasty stuff. Try something like Bepanthen.

On your worries re nursery, you've done the right thing by removing him. Whether something untoward has gone on there or not you have to trust your instincts where childcare is concerned.

I would definitely listen to your gut feeling on this OP. My happy go lucky son started prolonged sobbing fits in nursery around the same age when he changed rooms. Nursery started telling me it was temper. Except later on, when he had the language, he told me what happened...new creche worker was threatening kids with ringing police on them, terrifying them with consequences and isolation. I felt awful for insisting he kept going but after 2 months of seeing him miserable I took him out. Never ignore that kind of message.

I really hope this is innocent but you’ve absolutely done the right think taking him out of nursery until you know more.

I think OP is doing the right thing in going to A&E on the advice of her GP as he needs to be examined by a paediatrician not a GP.

She won’t wait for hours, and although not a “medical emergency” it will get sorted there. She’ll likely be sent straight up to the childrens ward for further expert input.