A PhD is a huge waste of time- aibu

[Bluffysummers]

I’d quantify this and say in the humanities.

I did one, worked hard to complete it, stress, time and money. I was totally duped into it, lecturers telling me how good I was and blowing smoke up my arse and implying I’d get a job at the end of it… in my subject there were 3 jobs nationwide when I graduated none full time…and god knows how many candidates.

I left academia and guess what, no one cares if you have a PhD, in fact I think it’s more of a hinderance than an asset. I spent 10 years in education and all it did was delay my industry and career experience, so basically hinder me.

Aibu to say If you’re thinking of doing a humanities PhD don’t.

@UCUNoMore

I think the other issue is that you have to be prepared to be completely mobile in the early years. Unless you’re very very fortunate, you’re going to be moving every 1-2 years, potentially all over the country, for a couple of short term posts until you hit the jackpot of a permanent post. Depending on your personal situation, this might be really difficult.

Did you apply for many jobs OP? I know people who’ve applied for literally hundreds.

Inside academia? A handful but I had just got married and realistically wasn’t as mobile as some of my other friends, they’d moved to oz for a year, the states, N Ireland etc and one that took the cake was at a ‘lesser uni’ £50 an hr teaching job 15 hrs a week, split over 5 days and you didn’t even get a parking spot, I’d have had to commute an hr. Impossible to get another job and yet not enough to live on, local parking was £3 an hr and spaces are to come by. The interview was a day long. I walked out and was like fuck this. I’m done.

Jobs outside of academia, when my ‘sure thing’ plan b fell through I was floored and was left scrambling and applied for hundreds, I was literally untouchable, declined for 17k a year jobs. Tragic. Same with many friends,
PhD in history or art and working in a bar because no one will give them a chance

I am planning to do a humanities PhD part time alongside work because as a PP said, I’ve got something to say. For me it would absolutely be a hobby. I finished top of my year as an undergrad and was asked to stay on but wanted to get a more practical Masters and then work, which has turned out well. But life experience has given me a particular angle on my undergrad interests and writing it out is doing me all manner of good. And if I don’t get funding I’ll get a large discount as I work at a university now, so it’ll probably turn out cheaper than the therapy I don’t fancy 🤣

Couldn't agree more OP. I learnt the hard way.

Agree OP (unless as a hobby but even then, better to write a readable book in my field).

I have a PhD, supervise students (social science). As PPs have said, academia is so very broken.

The only good thing OP is that you've realised it early. I look back (from an objectively successful career) and wish I'd done something different, even post-PHD. I really regret staying in academia.

I had a place to pursue a social sciences PhD and I'm really glad that I didn't do it. My MSc class had a talk about PhDs and were told then that it doesn't really enhance your employability, unless you want to pursue a career in academia (this was almost 20 years ago). I had a bit of interest in becoming an academic, but I'm really glad that I didn't because as you've found it's a really difficult sector to get a foothold in with lots of precarious work. I actually don't think I'd have been a very good PhD student because although I am bright enough and enjoy research I also really like working with other people. It have a notion that I might do one when I retire, but I recognise that it's a feat of endurance as much as anything else!

I am a hiring manager now and am as interested in work experience than qualifications - I receive so many CVs now from people with PhDs with no real work experience so the qualification doesn't really set people apart. I would really advise anyone thinking of pursuing a PhD to do get some experience in a relevant sector at the same time, or link their PhD up to a potential employer to make sure their research has real world relevance and they gain transferable skills.

I'm really sorry that you have found having a PhD to be a hinderance. It is a big achievement and I hope that you find work commensurate with your skills.

I think it's vital to gain work skills or experience alongside it. Those who do it part time or who return after some employment perhaps do better.

My friend's husband took forever to complete his, was late 20s and basically never had a job. Employment was a struggle and he's doing a job where it's really not required

I don't regret doing mine but I don't think I'd recommend it to anyone else. Like you I was naive about the odds I'd get a permanent job - people told me that most people didn't but I was used to being the person who came top so thought I'd be the one who managed it. Actually the ones in my cohort who did were the ones who had less stellar undergrad records but who really got their heads down and published loads. I wasted loads of time agonising over whether what I had was good enough to publish when I should have been bunging it into journals.

I had the standard series of fixed-term jobs - I didn't have a terrible time of it in the grand scheme of things because I was never unemployed and was always full-time, but it's still shit changing jobs every year or two and had no stability and it felt clearly unviable once I had a baby. So I got a non-academic job in a university - they kind of do value PhDs, they have a vested interest in doing so! - and that's worked out quite well. The people at the same level are mostly my age because my academic experience allowed me to skip some of the lower grades so I don't feel that left behind feeling you describe, though I clearly could have done a lot 'better' (certainly financially) if I'd done something else with my 1st when I was 21. My PhD was fully funded and I feel like of all the ways I could have wasted my early 20s being (poorly) paid to research something I loved wasn't the worst! But as I said I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else. The job market in my field has also got a lot worse since I finished in 2014, and it was crap then.

@BambinaJAS

My brother did a Ph. D in theoretical physics and he considers it a huge sunk cost now.

A Ph. D is only really advantageous if you are going into full time (and long-term) academia, a research type private sector role, or a public policy type position.

I would avoid otherwise (I stopped at two MSc's due for this reason).

I've worked in research and public policy without a PhD. Unfortunately for OP I wouldn't say it's an advantage to have one. When I've recruited for those types of roles there's been multiple people with PhDs applying, often with little to no relevant work experience. Having a PhD really doesn't help people stand out from the crowd in my experience.

Colleagues who put dr without phd on emails when they’re not medical doctors are ready not looked on too fondly. I always feel it’s harsh as it’s a huge achievement but when you work in a hospital there’s definitely a hierarchy and unwritten rule.

@Calmdown14

I think it's vital to gain work skills or experience alongside it. Those who do it part time or who return after some employment perhaps do better.

My friend's husband took forever to complete his, was late 20s and basically never had a job. Employment was a struggle and he's doing a job where it's really not required

Twinning with your mate’s hubby there. Luckily I’d had a teaching fellowship and worked along side my PhD as a primary school cover teacher, had publications and conferences and did volunteer work so I at least had something to talk about at interviews (if I got them) I managed to get on to some d list grad scheme which I hated and took the first job that hired me. Now I’m at a good company in a role I enjoy but £10k behind where I would be if I left Uni after my masters. God I need a promotion

It's not a waste of time to do a science PhD. However, in reality science is very political. Most people who do their PhD and postdoc in elite labs at top universities will go on to get an academic position (if they want one), because their PI will have all the right contacts. Doing a PhD in a lower ranking lab/institution is much less likely to lead to an academic career.

The best reason to do a PhD is because you are passionate about your subject and can embrace the idea of immersing yourself in it for 3-5 years.

@SoftSheen

It's not a waste of time to do a science PhD. However, in reality science is very political. Most people who do their PhD and postdoc in elite labs at top universities will go on to get an academic position (if they want one), because their PI will have all the right contacts. Doing a PhD in a lower ranking lab/institution is much less likely to lead to an academic career.

The best reason to do a PhD is because you are passionate about your subject and can embrace the idea of immersing yourself in it for 3-5 years.

It’s somewhat like that in humanities too, if you’ve got a good supervisor it helps greatly.

That’s a lovely reason to do a PhD and that’s why I did it but it’s a naive approach in the humanities

I have family members with PhDs who are doing relatively well. They did not walk into secure jobs because that is not how it works. They secured funding and worked through temporary contracts in world leading academic institutions and developed contacts until they have managed career stability and a senior position. This is after several years as quite junior, having to spend hours on applications for funding and their name being very low down on any published papers. All were had no contacts, just wanted to work in academia and accepted that a huge part of the role is being able to source funding for research projects. It is not particularly well paid but it is a business. Having a PHD is not worthless if you know you need it to progress but have the skills needed on top for whatever role.

@TheKeatingFive

Couldn't agree more OP. I learnt the hard way.

Same mate same :(

I'm posting without reading replies so I don't feel biased!

I have a PhD in Arts/Hums. I was funded throughout (I would not have done it without, but it was equivalent to minimum wage, plus some tax breaks, so I didn't feel it was bad deal). I finished in 2014, and immediately got a job paying (IIRC) about 28k. So not masses. I've never earned much more than that - the most worked out at about 35k - but on the whole I have enjoyed it. I love teaching. I liked research.

I got out of academic very recently, just after the pension scandal, and I'm not sorry to go. But I don't think my PhD was a waste of time. I earned a good wage in a job I couldn't have done without it, and I enjoyed my time.

Hope you get that promotion soon OP

Interesting thread. I can see why its a waste even though I had always fancied doing one.

@parietal

A PhD should not be thought of as a route to only an academic career. Of students who start a PhD in the UK (all subjects) only 5% will end up with a job as a university professor. So do a PhD if you love it or do it to learn particular skills but don't expect to end up in academia.

Is that true of Arts PhDs? I think it unlikely.

@UCUNoMore

Hope you get that promotion soon OP

Me too babe

I have a humanities PhD and work as a lecturer, so for me a PhD wasn't a waste of time. Obviously I may think differently if I hadn't found an academic job, but I went into my PhD aware that the job market was very tough. Throughout my PhD I took opportunities to go into schools and volunteered with teenagers, with the idea I could do a PGCE if I didn't get an academic job - I'm in a shortage subject so I think that would have been a realistic back-up.

I think the bigger problem is that your university weren't honest with you. I always tell students that most people who do a PhD end up in your position: in a 'normal' grad job, 5 years after their peers.

The office assistant and the manager have PhDs, they are earning about half what I did when I only had a BA.

Having said that, my ex has a PhD and he is earning 10 times as much

It is not about having a PhD, but about what you do with it after you graduate. What I think is a waste is starting one of you don’t know yet what direction you are going to take or what do you want it for.

@Siepie

I have a humanities PhD and work as a lecturer, so for me a PhD wasn't a waste of time. Obviously I may think differently if I hadn't found an academic job, but I went into my PhD aware that the job market was very tough. Throughout my PhD I took opportunities to go into schools and volunteered with teenagers, with the idea I could do a PGCE if I didn't get an academic job - I'm in a shortage subject so I think that would have been a realistic back-up.

I think the bigger problem is that your university weren't honest with you. I always tell students that most people who do a PhD end up in your position: in a 'normal' grad job, 5 years after their peers.

You mean you 'might' think differently.

What field are you in that people mostly end up in a normal grad job 5 years after their peers? IME that is very rare, or the result of bad advice. Most people can expect to enter grad professions at an appropriate level, unless they messed up during their PhD. I really don't think it's all this bad.

I’d thought about a pgce @Siepie but the thought of spending £9k more on tuition made me feel ill because I could have done it straight after my BA and I wasn’t that arsed about high school teaching.

I’d applied and got through to researchers in schools this seemed like a great fall back but then despite my subjects being the higher paid desirable one there were no spaces 2 years running… disaster

Most people can expect to enter grad professions at an appropriate level, unless they messed up during their PhD. I really don't think it's all this bad

What do you mean @SarahAndQuack? I passed my PhD no corrections and I couldn’t get a job (outside of teaching) for love nor money. That d list grad scheme was the only one I could get at that time, paid the same as grads with UG degrees

@Fruitbatdancer

YANBU, it’s the same as a masters, outside of academia no one gives a shiny shite. Experience, drive, ambition, a subject that points to a job focus (business, economics, medical, teaching, finance etc etc) might hold some sway but beyond ‘a degree’ no employer cares! If only they taught that at Uni! But it would be like turkeys voting for Xmas!

Funny this, as in Germany, for instance, you earn a lot less if you don't have a Masters. It's standard to move on to one.