A PhD is a huge waste of time- aibu

[Bluffysummers]

I’d quantify this and say in the humanities.

I did one, worked hard to complete it, stress, time and money. I was totally duped into it, lecturers telling me how good I was and blowing smoke up my arse and implying I’d get a job at the end of it… in my subject there were 3 jobs nationwide when I graduated none full time…and god knows how many candidates.

I left academia and guess what, no one cares if you have a PhD, in fact I think it’s more of a hinderance than an asset. I spent 10 years in education and all it did was delay my industry and career experience, so basically hinder me.

Aibu to say If you’re thinking of doing a humanities PhD don’t.

I said YABU. That being said, I think you are right in many cases, people have unrealistic expectations and don't really think through the likely outcomes. But it's not always the wrong decision, I know people who are working in academia in their area of expertise and it's what they wanted to do with their lives.

Surely then any recruiter worth their salt would want to know what the candidate had done for the previous 3 to 6 years. A PhD is hard earned and a doctorate is awarded once the PhD obtained. A medical Dr is merely honorary.

I did a PhD in STEM subject back in the 80s.
It was my 4th job (IT related) post graduating where this was seen as a real positive (by boss who also had a PhD) and led to better salary because of it.

I have a doctorate in social sciences and work in the public sector in a field relevant to my PhD field (broadly). My PhD was fully funded and took 4 years.
I'm on the fence the extent to which 4 years of the PhD contributed to my career versus 4 years of relevant work experience in addition to the masters I already held (that definitely helps). Probably quite evenly balanced in the end, at least for my field. Not just the 'status' of the PhD but also what I learnt doing it.
So YANBU, I certainly wouldn't have got into debt for this PhD and I can see how in the humanities it would be even less relevant and less useful for many careers which is a such a shame given how hard and long humanities PhDs are (I always in awe of my humanities friends when in grad school - they worked so so hard!!)

Funny this, as in Germany, for instance, you earn a lot less if you don't have a Masters. It's standard to move on to one.

There are also lots of jobs here in Canada that require a Masters before you get a look-in. But, rarely is it actually necessary to do the work, it's more about qualifications inflation. You spend all that time and money so you can get hired to do something that people 50 years ago were doing just as well with an undergrad, or some kind of two year diploma, or even just high school.

Op isn’t it still possible to complete the teacher training programme exclusively for PhD holders? If not, I’d consider working abroad and applying for jobs in academia in other universities around the world.

I’ve only joined LinkedIn recently and I saw some of my connections “like” posts that were very similar…several people posting things about what kind of job they’re looking for etc. with all the relevant hashtags and there were specific recruitment companies being mentioned. And I noticed that recruiters posted on those posts. I also noticed that there were a lot of recruiters on LinkedIn so that might be one way to look for a job?

As I said upthread, a lot of the people I know went on to progress really quickly post-PhD, so I don't really recognise the narrative that people with PhDs must be difficult employees or unsuitable for the workplace.

Smart enough to do a PhD, but not to do some research on employment prospects BEFORE jumping into it. Irony!

It depends why you are doing it! Essential for work in any academic or research field. Interesting that you describe your supervisors 'blowing smoke up my arse' ...did you not think about career planning as part of your decision to do this?

Op, look into becoming a tutor for the super rich.

It really, really depends on what it's in and what your plans are.

I’m sorry you are so disillusioned. I did a PhD in the School of Education. I originally did it for myself but it helped me to develop a career in academia. Even now , and I’ve been retired for over 10 years, people are still impressed and surprised.

It absolutely is a pyramid scheme and unis need to be fully up front with students about the lack of value on the job market. The 3 years itself though, I mean it's a privilege ultimately to get to do your own thing. I went abroad too and had the time of my life. No way I would have gotten the same benefits from an office job.

You are being really unreasonable. The problem is people doing PHDs in the humanities when they have no burning passion for their chosen subject. It’s not a golden ticket. For certain jobs it’s necessary and sometimes people just want to explore something further. The commodification of education is so frustrating.

What kind of job would you ideally like and which industry would you prefer to work in @Bluffysummers?

I am fascinated by this thread as I am a huge believer in the more education the better. I have 2X masters degrees and oodles of professional experience. My career path hasn't been a straight one but quite rewarding.

If I think back on my degrees and jobs, it's extremely obvious how much better the top notch RG course I did was in comparison to the post 92 courses. It does make you question the current HE system, so very much is irrelevant to the job market.

You need to be extremely well organised, have genuinely good communication and team work skills and be comfortable working in very diverse teams. I have also worked in HE admin at a high level and the calibre of people working in universities is nothing compared with those who work in the private sector. The UK HE needs a huge overhaul to become relevant again.

What language are you specialised in op? Could you work in the tech sector?

On the fence on this. I used my line manager's accounting PHD work for around 10 years. Every day. I worked with it and delivered training on it. It really was an amazing thing. On the last day I delivered training on it I spotted something I hadnt noticed before. Not a huge thing but just something which made me smile and think 'oh, that's clever'.

@BigGreen

It absolutely is a pyramid scheme and unis need to be fully up front with students about the lack of value on the job market. The 3 years itself though, I mean it's a privilege ultimately to get to do your own thing. I went abroad too and had the time of my life. No way I would have gotten the same benefits from an office job.

Do you think all people who work in offices just do admin?

I don't think my PhD was a waste of time - but mine is directly related to what I do for a living. I graduated with a Ph.D in Computer Science in 2008 (took 3 years and worked full time in the 4th year, writing up) and in 2007 went to a Big 4 as an IT Consultant on their graduate scheme.

Admittedly the company was horrible and had a bullying, nasty, exploitative culture - but my CV looked good after a few years and I've continued to work my way up. There's been a few interesting moments when I've been rejected for jobs due to my 'poor academic qualifications' as I got an E at A level maths despite the PhD...... but that's just funny.

I've found that the longer I progress in my career - the Ph.D stands out more as I've got the relevant work experience and professional qualifications (In Cyber Security) to back it up.....

I don't regret doing it at all as I got full funding from the EPSRC which was about 12K a year and added to that by working for the Uni doing exam invigilation / running labs.

@User112

Smart enough to do a PhD, but not to do some research on employment prospects BEFORE jumping into it. Irony!

I did, and i knew the job market was tough but like a poster upthread said, I thought I’d be one of the lucky ones. I’d done really well in my final year ug and won essay competitions and had one published, I was also reassured that there most likely would be a job for me at the end of it with a fellow ship at my home university. I had a plan b also, the PhD specific teacher training my subject being a sought after one so a place was a sure thing if I wanted it. Come to it and not so much, 2 years running no school in the UK had a placez

The uni I went to had actually really poor careers advice, I mean really poor looking back. I wish though I’d researched graduate schemes properly and submitted applications for a legit one.

What I didn’t expect was how much of a hinderance a PhD actually is, but you can’t take it off your CV because there are 4 years unaccounted for otherwise.

Also just on a side note, even though your comment was a snide one, you absolutely do not need to be smart to do a PhD, some of the dumbest people I’ve met in my life were doing PhD programs. I’d proof read some of their work and I’d be literally floored by the arguments they were making, how weak they were or frankly preposterous they were. A lot of international students hone institutions had ‘deals’ with the uni or the government and they sailed through and the caliber or the work, my god.

I don't understand the comments that people with PhD's lack of work experience comments but maybe it's different in different disciplines? Or do people mean lack of work experience in the specific job they do afterwards? I don't mention my PhD much at work and it didn't give me an advantage pay or career-wise but I very much consider it like having spent 3 years working in any other job. It's 3 years of research work experience. I'd already spent 3 years working as a research assistant in the same lab though so maybe that is why. I went in 9-5pm mon-fri and conducted research using the all same skills I do now at work in my public sector office job. I was also lucky as I did get paid a stipend and had no fees to pay so it was very much a job to me. It wasn't a magic ticket but I really enjoyed it and it's still one of the most interesting jobs I've ever done and I'm really glad I had that opportunity.

@mdh2020

I’m sorry you are so disillusioned. I did a PhD in the School of Education. I originally did it for myself but it helped me to develop a career in academia. Even now , and I’ve been retired for over 10 years, people are still impressed and surprised.

All due respect, but if you've been retired for over ten years, you and the OP are not talking about the same employment market. At all.

YANBU OP. A PhD in the humanities needs to be regarded as an enjoyable masochistic hobby. The "overeducated and underexperienced" trap is very real.

I have one, I work in a shop, I put things on shelves.
Don’t tell anyone I have it.

I did a PhD 20 years ago. I’ve never regretted it. It would have been almost impossible to have my current career if I hadn’t got a PhD, and I’d certainly never have progressed as rapidly as I did. But then I still work in STEM, and 40% of the people here have PhDs.

Plus I met DH whilst doing my PhD. It’s our 20th anniversary in May.

Also just on a side note, even though your comment was a snide one, you absolutely do not need to be smart to do a PhD, some of the dumbest people I’ve met in my life were doing PhD programs.

This is SO true. Thankfully I didn't see it at the Uni I went to but, my goodness, I've some dumb f*s with PhDs.
I think a PhD is more a sign of stubborness and tenacity (for better or worse) than anything else (and that's what got me through as well, didn't do anything particularly clever in my phd but just kept going and managed to get it done)

@SevenWaystoLeave

Depends why you want to do it, surely. Yes jobs in academia are limited and you're not guaranteed one - but you definitely wouldn't get one if you didn't have a PHD. So for those that are successful it's definitely not a waste of time.

Some people also do a PHD for the love of studying and learning, not everything in life is all about getting a job.

No it’s not all about getting a job for some people it’s about delaying getting a job!