A PhD is a huge waste of time- aibu

[Bluffysummers]

I’d quantify this and say in the humanities.

I did one, worked hard to complete it, stress, time and money. I was totally duped into it, lecturers telling me how good I was and blowing smoke up my arse and implying I’d get a job at the end of it… in my subject there were 3 jobs nationwide when I graduated none full time…and god knows how many candidates.

I left academia and guess what, no one cares if you have a PhD, in fact I think it’s more of a hinderance than an asset. I spent 10 years in education and all it did was delay my industry and career experience, so basically hinder me.

Aibu to say If you’re thinking of doing a humanities PhD don’t.

Piled Higher & Deeper as they say

@Rights

I’d say YABU because it totally depends on your reasons for doing it whether or not it’s funded. My DSis gave up a dead-end job to do her PhD because she got a fully funded place; she never wanted to go into academia (and hasn’t) but took the opportunity to study a subject she loved for its own sake, and be paid for the privilege. It was a great personal achievement for her, and although she hasn’t used it as such, she doesn’t regret it at all.

That said, academia these days is a shit show and decent teaching/research contracts are like hen’s teeth, so anyone considering doing PhD to pursue an academic career seriously needs to think about their Plan B.

Mine the first year was tuition fee funded and I was told, that I’d need to apply for the funding every year but as I’d already got funding for one year It was merely a formality and I’d get it… lie number 2 and then it was oh no this year was tough but next year you’ll definitely get it, lie number 3 and then I’d done 2/3rd of the blasted thing.

What a joke

And the caliber of research being done by some international students was an utter disgrace so the whole thing was a fix anyway

I know you said humanities.i agree with you. My friends doing science PhD were just putting off the inevitable career and prolonging uni life. It was a great fun thing to do but the reality is being 26 and starting grad level jobs alongside 22 year old and your friends who started work after their batchelors or masters having more money than you.

2friends did industry sponsored science PhD and now have well paid highly specific jobs. They are the only people I know apart from one guy who is Dean of a university who made academia work out.

Personally I don't mind employing older grads because you get the maturity and slightly less flighty life stage. But salary is the same as we'd give a 22 year old!

I do think there are too many places available for arts/humanities PhDs compared to the number of academic jobs available. And I don't think there is enough honesty about that. I have seen brilliant young academics give up after struggling with a series temporary, low paid teaching jobs. It is ridiculous the quality of people applying for these jobs. I'm an economist and the academic job market is completely different - it does feel unfair. I don't think people really realise until it is too late. I've seen a lot of historians etc give up and become barristers or private school teachers.

I used to work in Higher Education and have worked with a number of people who have PhDs, but working in unrelated fields where their PhD isn't relevant eg office work. A few have told me that they gave up academia because the jobs aren't there and they wanted to settle down (mortgage, wedding, children etc).

I think it's a real shame that the career opportunities can be limited for people with PhDs.

@Fruitbatdancer

YANBU, it’s the same as a masters, outside of academia no one gives a shiny shite. Experience, drive, ambition, a subject that points to a job focus (business, economics, medical, teaching, finance etc etc) might hold some sway but beyond ‘a degree’ no employer cares! If only they taught that at Uni! But it would be like turkeys voting for Xmas!

See my masters I don’t resent, it was one year and fully funded and I really wanted to do it, so I’m at peace with that, but I definitely was seduced into a PhD

The whole of academia sucks. Even if you get a job, it's a horrible life with not much money for a long time.

Just to add: It certainly wasn't a waste of time for me personally. I love my academic job. I feel very lucky. But it was right subject, right time, right place etc.

I know someone doing one in n Green Energy. Surely that will be an asset for a job seeker?

My mum said her PhD enabled her to change careers and go in at a senior level so from that pov, YABU.

Same can be said of many undergraduate degrees.

DS is doing a PhD because he wanted to. Humanities. He has enjoyed every minute of it but already had some work experience. He does some freelance writing and will likely join a grad scheme/policy twonk role and bring a little more maturity to it than otherwise. He has had to accept there are almost no humanities jobs at present so that shop has sailed.

A relative of mine is doing a fully funded PhD relating to climate change. I can only assume he will walk into a job at the end of it. My own DC wanted to do a PhD in a humanities subject. So far I have managed to persuade them that getting a job and some work experience on their CV is a far better move than embarking on a further 3-5 years study and having no work experience in their late 20's.

@ZenNudist

I know you said humanities.i agree with you. My friends doing science PhD were just putting off the inevitable career and prolonging uni life. It was a great fun thing to do but the reality is being 26 and starting grad level jobs alongside 22 year old and your friends who started work after their batchelors or masters having more money than you.

2friends did industry sponsored science PhD and now have well paid highly specific jobs. They are the only people I know apart from one guy who is Dean of a university who made academia work out.

Personally I don't mind employing older grads because you get the maturity and slightly less flighty life stage. But salary is the same as we'd give a 22 year old!

And tbh to be the 28 year old with 22/23 year olds on the same money is humiliating and I was humiliated every day and reminded how much of a loser and failure I was and in some sense it was right.

It also made a certain type of male colleague take an instant dislike to me and it would often be commented upon in a snide way. Obviously their problem not mine but the PhD felt like such a hinderance

Oooh I should not have opened this thread three years deep in an education PhD.

If you do it in the US on a good course you can be paid more than $40,000 a year for 5 years, so a pretty cushy way to study something you love.

One of mine is planning one - wants a research career (STEM). Spending a couple of years doing RA posts first though, but will need PhD to get beyond that.

(How long till they get pissed off with constant short term contracts is another matter though!)

@shrodingersvaccine

It definitely depends on your subject - mine is in engineering (my undergraduate is medicine) and I have walked into every job I’ve applied for since. I loved my PhD but I did have a brilliant, very pragmatic supervisor who pushed us to be employable at the end - so as many publications, practical experience, small grants etc that we could get our hands on. This means that when his students graduate, they don’t only have a PhD - some of us took a year to work in industry in PPPs for example. I love research and I’m genuinely really good at it but loving my subject isn’t enough, I think that’s what most PhD students don’t realise. Academia is a big business, so you’ve got to be able to show you can work that way and be profitable or it’s a waste of time.

Engineering a whole other ballgame. I definitely mean humanities like Italian, English, history, film studies, literature, philosophy, theology etc. Anything industry sponsored or science adjacent i do think it’s a value add

I voted YABU as at the point you're signing up for a PhD, surely you've done at least 3 years of Uni or have other relevant qualifications or life experience. You should have enough about you surely to investigate the job market you're hoping to get in to.

So if you're being seduced into it by academics, did you go talk to any recruiters in the field? Look at any job adverts for the types of jobs you'd be hoping to get into using the PhD?

I'm not meaning to be snarky about it or rude in any way, but surely some responsibility has to lie with the person undertaking the PhD to do some research into it's actual value once achieved.

I worked in recruitment for 10 months post uni (hated the sales element) and had a Metallurgist who was nearing 30 with no work experience but PhD and various Masters, he was completely and utterly unemployable outside of academia. Overqualified for anything entry level and under qualified (in terms of work experience) for non entry level positions.

@WashedupTroll

Same can be said of many undergraduate degrees.

But I think an UG is similar to a levels and a tick in a box and can get you to the next step, a grad scheme so in that sense it has a purpose… PhD nah not so much

@44PumpLane

I voted YABU as at the point you're signing up for a PhD, surely you've done at least 3 years of Uni or have other relevant qualifications or life experience. You should have enough about you surely to investigate the job market you're hoping to get in to.

So if you're being seduced into it by academics, did you go talk to any recruiters in the field? Look at any job adverts for the types of jobs you'd be hoping to get into using the PhD?

I'm not meaning to be snarky about it or rude in any way, but surely some responsibility has to lie with the person undertaking the PhD to do some research into it's actual value once achieved.

I worked in recruitment for 10 months post uni (hated the sales element) and had a Metallurgist who was nearing 30 with no work experience but PhD and various Masters, he was completely and utterly unemployable outside of academia. Overqualified for anything entry level and under qualified (in terms of work experience) for non entry level positions.

I was looking specifically at uni jobs and I was told by the career office ‘we take care of our own’ and by my department that they often create a 2/3 year fellowship for our PhD grads that we hope can be permanent or at least give you experience to get another job.

I also spoke to researchers in schools as my back up, a teacher training programme exclusively for PhD and higher paid than any teach first programme. They said that my subject was highly sought after.

I felt I had a solid plan a and b…

Both of which were bollox

@Bluffysummers i was earning 22k at 29 years old, same wage as 21-year-old software tester. To be fair he probably had more work experience than me. It was humiliating.. Luckily my wage doubled for my next job.

Yanbu. I've done quite a lot of recruitment over the years and I'd usually be reluctant to hire someone with a PhD unless they have decent work experience too. It's a generalisation but in my experience they seem to struggle with tailoring their writing/language/communications to different audiences instead of assuming that we're all fellow academics! However, if someone has a PhD, superb work experience and is also an expert communicator then I find it very impressive.

I was looking specifically at uni jobs and I was told by the career office ‘we take care of our own’ and by my department that they often create a 2/3 year fellowship for our PhD grads that we hope can be permanent or at least give you experience to get another job.

How long ago did you do your PhD, OP? I finished mine 13 years ago, and even then I knew the market in humanities was incredibly tough. You have to go into it with your eyes wide open, that’s for sure, and I have a frank conversation with all my PhD students about what the job market is really like. I also think it’s possibly ethically dubious to take on self-funded PhD students in humanities at the moment.