A PhD is a huge waste of time- aibu

[Bluffysummers]

I’d quantify this and say in the humanities.

I did one, worked hard to complete it, stress, time and money. I was totally duped into it, lecturers telling me how good I was and blowing smoke up my arse and implying I’d get a job at the end of it… in my subject there were 3 jobs nationwide when I graduated none full time…and god knows how many candidates.

I left academia and guess what, no one cares if you have a PhD, in fact I think it’s more of a hinderance than an asset. I spent 10 years in education and all it did was delay my industry and career experience, so basically hinder me.

Aibu to say If you’re thinking of doing a humanities PhD don’t.

DH & lots of his colleagues did their PhDs part time after at least ten years in Industry or research. He had part of his research repeated back to him on a speed awareness course so its fair to say it's been useful.
He's in a good department, at a good university, excellent ref.
A PhD should be cpd. A taught masters is for learning, a doctorate is because you think you have something to say. And that goes for humanities as well as STEM.
Sometimes it doesn't make sense at the time but don't disown it, life has a funny way of pulling all the weird bits together as you get older.

@MoonSpoonSoon

Yanbu. I've done quite a lot of recruitment over the years and I'd usually be reluctant to hire someone with a PhD unless they have decent work experience too. It's a generalisation but in my experience they seem to struggle with tailoring their writing/language/communications to different audiences instead of assuming that we're all fellow academics! However, if someone has a PhD, superb work experience and is also an expert communicator then I find it very impressive.

But that literally proves my point so how am I BU?

Straight out Of my PhD at 27, even though I’m a capable candidate and actually don’t struggle to change my tone of voice, you wouldn’t have given me a chance, my only experience at that point was teaching, publications, presentations and conferences

YANBU. All my relatives who have one told me to not bother.
There are too many PhD students in fields which can't even pay FT academics.

I didn't do a PhD for this reason. Could have done it and got great results, but didn't see it ending in academia and in the 'real world' it just doesn't translate. You lose out on so much and building actual work experience, being nearly 30 with nothing to really show for it

I did a BSc and MSc in Chemistry, and had the possibility of doing a PhD, as the MSc project was in quite a hot area. My MSc really helped me see that I didn't want to spend even more time in academia, so it was worth it in that sense.

I know how you feel about people judgiy you on academic qualifications (not in a good way). When I was just out of university, I had various older people (male and female) make snide comments about me having an MSc.

Maybe on of the few advantages of getting older is that it all seems like a long time ago now, so no one comments. I guess I was lucky to do the MSc straight after the MSc, so out of University at 22 (which seems incredibly young compared to some people I meet in mainland Europe)

See I thought the STEM subjects had significantly more employment prospects than humanities.

They do but there's still snobbery about 'selling out' and going into industry. Conversely a purely academic career can be seen as a hindrance when recruiting into industry, a PhD is attractive but a string of postdocs can be problematic depending on what transferable skills were picked up. I know people who have ended up trapped in academia because they aren't seen to have commercial experience so couldn't leave.

@UCUNoMore

I was looking specifically at uni jobs and I was told by the career office ‘we take care of our own’ and by my department that they often create a 2/3 year fellowship for our PhD grads that we hope can be permanent or at least give you experience to get another job.

How long ago did you do your PhD, OP? I finished mine 13 years ago, and even then I knew the market in humanities was incredibly tough. You have to go into it with your eyes wide open, that’s for sure, and I have a frank conversation with all my PhD students about what the job market is really like. I also think it’s possibly ethically dubious to take on self-funded PhD students in humanities at the moment.

Totally agree on the ethics point!

Finished 2016, and whilst I knew the job market was tough, it was v wink wink nudge nudge you’ll be ok, and in my department there was a PhD candidate say every few years and they did get TF or RF positions and there was one I could apply for at the end, but it was 50%fte which we know means all term time and you don’t get paid for reading week or holidays and it was for one year, and we all know there would be enough work to carry on through the holidays that’s for sure

I know quite a few people who did humanities PhDs. The only one who is happy is the one who doesn't need to work. So yeah it's fine as a hobby. I'm sorry OP.

Well, my PhD is essential for what I do (I'm an academic in the humanities). Mine was also fully funded with a very healthy stipend. But there's no way I would embark on such a path today. As PP said, academia is a shit show now, especially in the humanities in the UK. Hardly any permanent jobs, for which there are many well-qualified candidates who have spent years working on casual zero-hours teaching contracts whilst doing their research/writing in their own time. The cunty government on a mission to decimate the arts and humanities and higher education more broadly. The pensions debacle. The student-as-consumer. And universities in general expected to make up for all the shortcomings and inequalities in the compulsory education system.

When did you do your PhD OP? I'm really surprised that your department and/or your supervisors weren't honest with you about the problems in the sector and the challenges of getting a job. I'm always completely up front with anyone who approaches me to supervise them and I will only take someone on who I think has a decent chance of getting a job at the end. But even so I still tell them how tough it will be.

@JaninaDuszejko

See I thought the STEM subjects had significantly more employment prospects than humanities.

They do but there's still snobbery about 'selling out' and going into industry. Conversely a purely academic career can be seen as a hindrance when recruiting into industry, a PhD is attractive but a string of postdocs can be problematic depending on what transferable skills were picked up. I know people who have ended up trapped in academia because they aren't seen to have commercial experience so couldn't leave.

Ah that’s interesting! Didn’t know that

Depends. If you’re already in academia you need one to progress. I’m an SL and I haven’t got one but if I wanted to move to another job then one would be required.

Anyone I know who has done a phd was paid to do it...I wouldn't pay to do one!

@Flockameanie

Well, my PhD is essential for what I do (I'm an academic in the humanities). Mine was also fully funded with a very healthy stipend. But there's no way I would embark on such a path today. As PP said, academia is a shit show now, especially in the humanities in the UK. Hardly any permanent jobs, for which there are many well-qualified candidates who have spent years working on casual zero-hours teaching contracts whilst doing their research/writing in their own time. The cunty government on a mission to decimate the arts and humanities and higher education more broadly. The pensions debacle. The student-as-consumer. And universities in general expected to make up for all the shortcomings and inequalities in the compulsory education system.

When did you do your PhD OP? I'm really surprised that your department and/or your supervisors weren't honest with you about the problems in the sector and the challenges of getting a job. I'm always completely up front with anyone who approaches me to supervise them and I will only take someone on who I think has a decent chance of getting a job at the end. But even so I still tell them how tough it will be.

Finished in 2016, could have done 2015 but the getting shit on broke me Into a bit of depression, i wanted to quit but I’d come so far and what’s a write up year to quit. Passed no corrections.

My supervisor was shite. In fact hated in the department and wider circles, found this out too late, advisors and such said it’s tough but you’re really good etc etc, Heavily Implying that I’d be one of the lucky few, all very wink wink nudge nudge. I was top 2 in an interview for a TF position in my second year PhD full time so would have had to drop to part time PhD but missed out as I hadn’t completed yet.. but I smashed the interview apparently so this was the fire if you will to keep going…
You know I’m actually quite embarrassed looking back. I’m such a dickhead

My PhD was the most amazing experience of my life. In a STEM field, fully funded for 4 years and I got to travel the world going to conferences and observing (telescopes) and got a research fellowship straight after. Most of my peers went into industry though and earn 4 times what I do, doing things like data science or Quants etc. I am sorry you haven't had the same experience doing a humanities PhD. Hopefully you enjoyed the experience though.

I think the other issue is that you have to be prepared to be completely mobile in the early years. Unless you’re very very fortunate, you’re going to be moving every 1-2 years, potentially all over the country, for a couple of short term posts until you hit the jackpot of a permanent post. Depending on your personal situation, this might be really difficult.

Did you apply for many jobs OP? I know people who’ve applied for literally hundreds.

@purpledagger

I used to work in Higher Education and have worked with a number of people who have PhDs, but working in unrelated fields where their PhD isn't relevant eg office work. A few have told me that they gave up academia because the jobs aren't there and they wanted to settle down (mortgage, wedding, children etc).

I think it's a real shame that the career opportunities can be limited for people with PhDs.

There are plenty of career opportunities for people with PhD's. They're just the exact same opportunities available to undergrads.

Also in my humble observation PhD's tend to be 'underemployed' for 2 reasons:

1. Lack of work experience
2. The perception that their PhD is worth more money.

The amount of knowledge in the world is infinite. It's foolish to pretend that all of it has equal value, and therefore deserves funding. Less PhD students = more guaranteed jobs, but universities want free labour and self-funding money.

Also to add sorry you had such a shit time OP.
I'm a big advocate of education but in today's world tradtional educational paths are the worst place to get it. Lecturers are worked like dogs, little emphasis on inspiring/education, degrees are just a pieve of paper needed for a job.

Textbooks, videos from top institutions are available online and can be downloaded for free, with active online forum discussions. Some of the sharpest minds I've met never went to university.

I would personally only do a PhD as a hobby
As an employer it wouldn’t make a jot of difference if you didn’t have the relevant professional experience
I’m frequently surprised at the standard of MA students I get on placement - but I am nearly 60 and remember life pre grade and qualification inflation

They probably are a waste of time except for certain positions.
Data Science, Quant, Maths, Psychology

I'd like to do one for fun when I retire.

I did one and think it taught me a great deal about resilience... and dumb luck, and the sheer joy of having projects that don't just depend on me to progress them. I hated it at the time but miss it now. Is that weird? Idk. Anyway it helps with my job now so that's good

I do mine for fun and the challenge and I work full time.

There are next step roles in my field which require a doctorate.

Twenty years in work allow me to fund it, know what I want to research and how to balance it with work and family.

I don’t think it’s a hindrance at all and would love more highly qualified people to apply for my team.

Everyone I knew who was doing one seemed to have such appalling time management. They’d be paid for 3 years but end up taking 4 or 5, and thought me insane for suggesting they stop wasting any more time on it and just get a proper job instead.

I did a doctorate, partly for my own self confidence, partly because I just wanted to learn more about the field and enjoy the 3 years. No regrets. :)

I loved doing my humanities PhD (anthropology) I started it when I was 30 so had had a few years in the world of work, therefore had a bit of life experience behind me rather than straight from undergrad via masters. I didn't particularly want an academic career but I loved the subject and it allowed me to do (paid) fieldwork in a tropical country. I did then do a 1 year post-doc afterwards, but academic life with its unsocial hours and precarious employment prospects were just not for me - I didn't have the stomach for it and was not ambitious enough. I don't think it was a waste of time though for me personally, it opened the door to the job I have now, and I do like answering the question or miss or mrs? with the answer Dr :)

I do kind of agree with you though OP, if you are after an academic career a humanities PhD for most people is a waste of time as there are too many PhDs being churned out each year and not enough jobs. I would advise anyone who wants to do one to have a few years in employment first so if your PhD career prospects don't work out then at least you have some work experience to fall back on.

Working in industry - work experience much more important than a PhD. Do it for academic experience but not for career in industry.