Will Smith/Chris Rock Oscars - where do you stand?

[Jaggerdagger]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/entertainment-arts-60898250

I'm a bit on the fence at the moment but shocked from watching this - wondered what others think?

YABU Will Smith had every right to wallop Chris. His wife was clearly deeply insulted. He deserved it.
YANBU Chris was just reading from a script and didn't deserve such a public assault.

@LondonWolf

And his career and life would be finished.

Same if Will Smith had slapped Ricky Gervais or any other white man.

You think the Academy would have let that one slip??

What's your point?

@TerriblyStill

I'm appalled by Will Smith's behaviour. He's a role model to many young, black men. He's just modelled the behaviour that if someone insults you/your 'possession'/wife then it's justified to respond with violence.

I read earlier that black member of the academy board said he was sickened by Will's conforming to the stereotype of 'violent black man' and that Will had damaged the efforts to have this stereotype written off as racist and outdated.

Chris Rock's joke was an absolute pile of shite and Jada/Will could so easily and effectively shamed him for it afterwards but now he's a victim of violent crime .

I too am shocked at the amount of apologists for Will Smith's behaviour and completely agree with those who say if he is willing to physically assault and verbally abuse someone with the eyes of millions upon millions of people on him, what on earth would he do at home behind closed doors.

The whole thing is sickening and has completely taken over the celebration of actors/directors/composers at the top of their game. I'd love to think it would spell the end of his career but we know that violent men continue to succeed as they always have. It's like we've made no progress at all.

Here's a newsflash.

Most black boys don't hold Will Smith as a role model, they get their values from their home, like everyone else.

Your own outrage says more about you being threatened by a black man, than it does about the actual incident,

When you type, has completely taken over the celebration of actors/directors/composers at the top of their game. I'd love to think it would spell the end of his career for one fucking incident, says it all @TerriblyStill

@AnnesBrokenSlate

Many men that fight other men compartmentalise those behaviours Any research to support that? Because everything I read when I worked in this area, said the opposite.

This entire incident will be triggering and upsetting for victims of violence. Not only the event itself if they were watching but all the idiots rushing to justify it and paint it as romantic. That belittling of violence is really upsetting and sends a clear message that men are allowed to hit whenever they feel like their feelings have been hurt - and people will rush to excuse them. I mean, we know that's the case but it's been so blatant in the aftermath of this.
All of people infantilising men by comparing them to little boys at school is quite sickening.

This entire incident will be triggering

For white people to blow it out of all proportion , yes.

@StormzyinaTCup

I'm going against the majority with this. I suffered with Alopecia when I was in my early 30's (fortunately in my case my hair did eventually grow back) and I'd have been devastated if I was on the receiving end of that 'joke' and delivered so publicly. She probably spent a lot of money on her dress and her jewellery and arrived feeling and looking as fabulous as everyone else (appearance is everything in LA) and to the. be pulled up on something so personal is just nasty. I think that sums up Hollywood and its attitude generally to women tbh, women are easy pickings. If Rock had been any closer to her she probably would have slapped him herself, she wasn't so WS did it for her.

I don't condone violence on the whole but I'd make an exception in this case.

I’m sorry that this upset you personally. I personally don’t believe this was an appropriate joke to have made. Not funny just rude IMO. However, just because it upsets people who’ve had similar experience to “the butt of the joke” doesn’t make it ok to respond with violence. My Mum has serious mental health issues and, for example, just seeing an advert for the ducking film Me, Myself and Irene gives me a churning rage. I can’t enjoy any films with Jim Carey in it now as a result. And then there is all the time people think it’s ok to use the word schizo in general conversation…. Upsets me every time but I haven’t once yet thought violence would be an appropriate response.

@LondonWolf

Just posted this on the other thread. Will looked altogether too comfortable dishing out that kind of one off slap to me. He didn't stay to fight, he didn't grab Chris R by his lapels or get in his face as most men I have seen fight start out a confrontation by doing. He walked onto that stage and dished out a big chastising slap and then walked away safe in the knowledge he'd not be challenged.

He's a disgusting, arrogant bully.

Yes. I agree. It struck me that way too.

Smith, in a lot of ways, has done very well for himself do of course there’s going to huge numbers of black boys, more in the states, who consider him as a role model. How many successful black millionaires are there, anyway? And have been successful for decades?

Black people never get to represent just themselves, they have to represent:
-other black people (people on this thread suggesting Will has let other black men down by playing into a stereotype - something that would never be said about a white actor),
-societal violence (black on black violence, male violence)
-domestic violence and child murders
-an example to be made of (people suggesting he should be stripped of his awards despite white actors with worse convictions retaining theirs)

I'm sick of this narrative around any black person, and would like just for once, for a black person to be judged on their own merit in the context of their own individual lives

Completely agree with all this.

has chris rock issued a statement yet?

When is Chris Rock's next tour date? I wonder what his jokes will be!

Honestly I couldn't care. There are so many more important things going on in the world than these two idiots wanging their macho egos around. It almost feels like it's being used to distract us from something more important going on.

@southeastdweller

Smith, in a lot of ways, has done very well for himself do of course there’s going to huge numbers of black boys, more in the states, who consider him as a role model. How many successful black millionaires are there, anyway? And have been successful for decades?

How many successful black millionaires are there, anyway?

Fuck's sake.....You think the only ones are film stars and rap do you?

Here's a list of black Billionaires for you...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_billionaires

Here's one the richest black men in the UK, not a microphone or sports gear in sight...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Ibrahim

@Giggorata

He was laughing along with everyone else until he saw Jada's face. So, misogynistic arse to his own wife. Then he either saw her and realising she was upset, got protective and flipped into my possession/male violence mode, (so misogynistic arse) Or felt he looked bad in public by laughing (true), so overreacted for the cameras, nothing to do with Jada really. So, misogynistic arse.

We all know Chris Rock is a misogynistic arse.
However, I agree with this:
“The way he reacted to being hit, he obviously is not a violent man. It clearly shocked him but he made no move to retaliate or escalate the situation. He attempted to put the audience at ease and placate the violent angry man that had just attacked him, to calm the situation. THAT is how a good man reacts.”

And I agree that the roasting culture in the US opens itself to this sort of thing.
We remind unhappy women on MN that banter, negging and low level bullying disguised as jokes are abusive. What is different about roasting?

Totally agree.

GMB pissed me off so much talking about it this morning.

I really dont get why it's so much more insulting (apparently according to the guest they had on) to mention a black woman having alopecia rather than a white woman.

So if I had alopecia my feelings wouldn't be as valid or important as a black woman?

Wtf?

I’ve seen many people on social media saying that white people shouldn’t be commenting on this (two instagrammers I follow posted about it then got flak for doing so as white women) and to be perfectly honest I find this stance really limiting.

I get that people think that this is very tied up in how black women’s hair has been historically viewed but are we not allowed to comment on how a rich idol slapping and abusing verbally someone is not acceptable?

@EyeSpyPlumPie
Because white people are using the actions of one black man to pillory the black community. Lots of usage of derivates of the word "thug" here that feel loaded, among other things.

[quote ToiletPoster]@EyeSpyPlumPie
Because white people are using the actions of one black man to pillory the black community. Lots of usage of derivates of the word "thug" here that feel loaded, among other things.[/quote]
I see your reasoning.

However his actions WERE the actions of a thug. And I would denounce those actions and use the same terms regardless of whether he was black or white.

This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with an arrogant entitled man who thinks it's ok to physically assault someone (regardless of what CR said).

[quote ToiletPoster]@EyeSpyPlumPie
Because white people are using the actions of one black man to pillory the black community. Lots of usage of derivates of the word "thug" here that feel loaded, among other things.[/quote]
Surely that is some white people are doing that. I’m not sure all white people should all be judged on some white people’s behaviour either.

if it comes to light that CR did not know she has alopecia, does that change things? If he thought the shaved head was a fashion choice or for a film role?
I'd bet that he would know about Jada's alopecia.
CR was thrilled with the reaction he got from making a fool of Jada at the awards on 2016.
The 2016 clip had 1000's of views since the slap.
The entire audience erupted with laughter at Jada's expense in 2016 thanks to CR.
CR is a dick.
I'm sorry that Will lost his temper publicly.

I think Will Smith was completely wrong to use violence to make his point.

However, we allow people to get away with cruel remarks far too often. In school child A will taunt another child B until they snap and smack child A, A gets away with it, B is severely punished. Both should be punished.

They're all idiots. Including Jada.

Same if Will Smith had slapped Ricky Gervais or any other white man.

So you say. We don't know though do we because that didn't happen. Out of interest do you think would have happened if a white man had got up and slapped CR across the face for making that joke about his wife?

My point is why isn't his career over for his attack on another black man? Why are people bending over backwards to excuse him? Why are people pretending that only white men get a free pass with concerns around MH issues when there are multiple posts and opinions on SM including right here on MN asserting that there is clearly "something more going on" with poor old Will and pretending that CR told a vicious, emotionally violent joke about poor Jada - one that her husband (and the entire audience) laughed at first off by the way. It was a cheesy, not particularly funny joke and I've seen it said that he didn't even know she has alopecia. He didn't deserve to be slapped across the face for it. It's nonsense to pretend that it all would have been different if a white man had been the one slapping out, it would have been different only in so much it would have been used as evidence of vicious, institutional racism. No would have given two toots about his poor wife's hair or lack of.

So my question is why isn't it being taken as seriously when it's black on black crime? Probably because in the current climate people just don't know what to do with that so the fall back is "how can we make this about how racist white people are?" You can't, hence the flailing.

That article linked to is interesting though and I agree with much of it. I cringe when I read some of the accounts of how this reminds people of their own trauma/DV etc. However I am not sure it's always based in race and vilifying the black man these days, though agree it very much was in past times. These days I think its more about looking for social media strokes and "support". Trauma and victimhood has high social value these days and it has become normal to use it as social currency and as get out jail free cards for your own clumsy, potentially hurtful behaviours/views.

So my question is why isn't it being taken as seriously when it's black on black crime?

Because, as far as I understand it, for the police to peruse this, Chris Rock has to press charges, which he has declined to do.

@Sockpile

Calling Chris out for offending his wife is fine, resorting to physical violence is not.

This. They are both stupid.

Feel quite sorry for Chris Rock aswell he’s a small bloke who wouldn’t have retaliated Will knows that, no one really rushed to comfort him

It's hilarious that Jayda has been embarrassing Will for years. So many scandals have come out about his family yet he takes it out on the comedian at the Oscars.
Chris was just saying what most of us KNOW
Potentially a staged slap because I'm not sure it connected. Chris face looked fine after lol

I thought his mouth looked sore. But I'm not that familiar with how his mouth usually looks!