School residential is religious

[Stephthegreat]

Dcs school is CofE and as there are four faith schools closest to us we sent dcs to the nearest one. Neither me or dh are religious but we support the values of the faith and the school.

The school used to go to a really fab place for residential and it was full of activities, adventuring, just a really fun weekend. Ds is due to go on camp soon and the new residential the school have chosen looks extremely religious. Ds really doesn’t enjoy this side of school and has his own ideas about faith.

The programme involves daily bible study and ‘getting to know jesus’. There are bible related games and quizzes and prayer sessions. It looks like they do bushcraft and have a bonfire too which is up Ds street. He’s a bit put off by the whole idea and I also think it’s quite serious!

AIBU?

@Daffodilz

Really. Was there genuinely no clue in the school's title that your children would be learning about religion...

@daffodilz It’s the religious nature of the camp the OP is concerned by.

And as many others have said, in a lot of areas the CofE schools dominate. We had a choice of 3 where I live, nothing nondenominational.

Personally I found it hideous when the kids came home prattling about how god made the world etc. But they’ve grown up and out of it and now have a healthy scepticism for religion.

Yanbu

Lots of schools are CofE for historical reasons. And while you can actively chose religious schools, you can't opt out of them. They are often just the local school.The school need to be sensitive to the actual population needs, not the idealistic ones. (Making the religious bits optional for example)

This. Let's not forget these our state funded schools. Our school is cofe, as a parent I would go berserk if they did this, they are the only school in the village and pupils here wouldnt get a place at any other school. It's not really inclusive to children of other faiths/no faiths. There's a big difference between having a Christian ethos and a state funded school proselytising via a strongly religious residential.

Complain OP.

All the posters claiming OP chose to send her son to a faith school are being disingenuous. UK schools are often nominally at least faith for historical reasons and receive funding centrally. I think this absolutely isn’t ok - I’d complain to the school and not send my son.

Don't send your children to a faith school, then complain when they share their faith.If you object to a religious message being part of school events, choose a secular school. It is basically that simple

Previous poster nailed it.

What are you supposed to do if there aren't any secular schools?

The nearest schools to me are 3 CofE schools, one catholic school, and a specialist school for children with disabilities. I need to live here for work.

State schools should not be pushing religion to that extent. These schools are funded to educate children, not convert them.

Hmm similar here, constant RE lessons and Christian projects etc in our c of e primary, to the detriment of other subjects and activities IMO. However, DD got a 9 in RE gcse without doing any revision in Christianity and having never had any religious instruction at home ir attending a church. That’s a plus point

I think I recently read that 40% of all English schools are associated with the Church of England. If you live in a rural area, the chances are that ALL the nearby village schools are CofE, especially at primary level.

All those posters saying YABU because you chose to send him to a church school probably live in a large town or city where there is real choice.

I too am not remotely religious but would choose my local village school for community reasons over one half an hour away. But I would hope that they would make some attempt at inclusivity for children of all faiths and none. A Christian day out is one thing. Making the long-awaited school residential all about Jesus is not.

Do you know who runs the centre, don't think the c of e owns any. If it's cheaper than you expected for a school trip I suspect it's owned by an evangelical church/trust as part of outreach and it's cheaper than normal camps, the school might have switched for financial reasons.

@MorrisOxford

I think I recently read that 40% of all English schools are associated with the Church of England. If you live in a rural area, the chances are that ALL the nearby village schools are CofE, especially at primary level.

All those posters saying YABU because you chose to send him to a church school probably live in a large town or city where there is real choice.

I too am not remotely religious but would choose my local village school for community reasons over one half an hour away. But I would hope that they would make some attempt at inclusivity for children of all faiths and none. A Christian day out is one thing. Making the long-awaited school residential all about Jesus is not.

My apologies, not 40%. One in 4 primary schools and one in 16 secondary schools in England are Church of England schools.

Around a third of state funded schools are allied to a faith of some kind (mostly Christian CofE / Catholic, but some Jewish and Muslim. In some areas, depending on the demographic, these will dominate.

There's a big difference between having a Christian ethos and a state funded school proselytising via a strongly religious residential.

This sums it up and obviously many many posters have no idea what the norm is for a CofE aided school. They're not faith schools with a capital F in 99.9% of cases. They're not like Muslim or even RC faith schools. They're normal state schools which have a broadly Christian ethos. They do not have a mandate to proselytize add nor do they normally wish to, but this school is doing exactly that.

This "you chose a church school, what do you expect" version of 'cancel the cheque' demonstrates a huge amount of ignorance and really doesn't apply to the OP's situation.

I can only assume the "don't send your child to a faith school then" brigade live in cities where they have options. In large areas of the countryside there are no other options. An hour round trip twice a day is not an option unless you are a wealthy SAHP, and even then you shouldn't have to do that to get non-brainwashing education that is being paid for by taxpayers!

When I was a teenager I was invited along on a residential trip organised by my friend's church which up until that point we had assumed was your bog standard C of E church where people turn up once a week, sing hymns, then get on with their lives. It was billed as a residential trip but it turned out to be run by young evangelicals who went VERY heavy on the conversion/born again stuff. These 20-something men and women spent the weekend making friends with a bunch of impressionable younger teenagers and then on the last night got us all in a room with low mood lighting and swirly music and lots of really intense talk about how Jesus could be our friend and we could have a better life, be special and loved etc etc etc. If that sounds like a cult to you it did to me too - but only once I got out of that room into the fresh air. I'm still angry 20 years later that my parents were tricked into sending me there and I'm even more angry that this sort of shit is now being peddled by a school using my money.

If I were you I would make an extremely big fuss about this, OP, involving my MP and any press that will listen. The school governors need to be put back in their box - their job is to educate, not convert.

My kids go to a catholic school and I'd expect prayer to happen on a residential.

However I'd expect the focus to be outdoor adventurous learning and not on religion.

Is it worth getting a more detailed itinerary from the school or the organisers? It might be that there are a lot of games and activities with short Bible segments in the morning and evening. Still not as fun as an outdoor centre for DS but might be enjoyable enough. Alternatively my DD won't be going on her residential this year due to severe homesickness on the last one and I know the children who stay behind usually have a great time and it's probably a third of the year group.

[quote BikiniB0tt0m]@etheltheaardvark You can keep your rtftffs I did read the op posts and alot of the others, I'm not reading every single post. But the whole point of the thread was aibu like she wants it to change, when she should know full well there would be issues like that in a Church of England school. In my opinion there is nothing wrong learning about different believes after all trying to understand culture and believes even if you don't agree makes for a more respectful person. You don't have to practice or celebrate it. Just observe and be respectful.[/quote]
I don't understand how you could have said OP should just send her child further away to school if you had read her posts.

Furthermore, if you had read it you would know that this camp is not aimed at teaching the children about different beliefs. It is evangelising, which is something different altogether.

My school was staffed by born again Christians. It was a state C of E. We had to do a little prayer at the start and end of each class plus chapel every day. My family were atheist. I don't think it harmed me, it taught me about faith. As kids we just tolerated it and surreptitiously took the piss at some if the more happy clappy teachers.

My kids go to a catholic school and I'd expect prayer to happen on a residential.

Nothing puts children off religion more than being forced to believe by adults. Forced prayer is awful.

We ended up sending dd private to avoid faith (COE) schools. I went to one as a child and was berated for being and atheist and told I was going to hell (in y3)!! All the schools around here (the two in this village and the ones in the surroundings villages for 5miles are all COE) there was no non COE school we could have applied for and got a place - we did apply to the community school in the nearest town but spaces went to town kids.

All children should have the right to a secular state education. It’s a disgrace that they don’t. Councils should have to provide a secular school place when asked.

There is a big difference between choosing to send your dc to a faith school that either you pay for or the church pays for - that can be as religious as you want. and the local state provision only being faith based.

@Thatswhyimacat

Just because it's a faith school doesn't mean everything always has to constantly be about Jesus though?

Erm, when you're a Christian, Jesus is supposed to be the most important aspect of our life and inform and influence everything we do! That's the whole point! I can imagine your DS might not be thrilled, but would it be worse if he didn't go on the camp at all? Ye should probably sit down together and work out the pros and cons of going v. not going. TBH, if you don't want him to have a Christian education, you should have sent him to a secular school. Faith schools are there to give children educations based in that particular Faith. I sent my DC to a Catholic school when we lived in England for that very reason!

Faith schools are there to give children educations based in that particular Faith

C of E aided are not. Stop conflating local, often rural, primary schools historically partially funded by the church, to schools more recently founded to specifically cater to a particular religious faith demographic.

When you're a Christian, Jesus is supposed to be the most important aspect of our life and inform and influence everything we do! That's the whole point!

Nothing could be fairer if that's what you believe, but what some of us are objecting to is it being presented as an aim for others to follow rather than a personal view ... doubly so when their organisation's taking public money to do so and there are no alternatives in some areas

And please don't anyone say "But they own the schools!!", because if we take a valuation and knock off all the costs the state's paid for over the years, plus a deduction for the churches' "advertising" use, it may well be the them who owe the money

saraclara are you sure you don't mean CofE controlled? It's often confused, but in theory the aided ones are where the churches put in more money (though they often weasel out) and have much more control, whereas the controlled ones are fully funded by the LA and often go for a lighter approach

There's a handy guide below, but as said this is the theory and it can go out of the window pretty fast depending on what leaders have been appointed

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/types-of-school/

[quote Puzzledandpissedoff]saraclara are you sure you don't mean CofE controlled? It's often confused, but in theory the aided ones are where the churches put in more money (though they often weasel out) and have much more control, whereas the controlled ones are fully funded by the LA and often go for a lighter approach

There's a handy guide below, but as said this is the theory and it can go out of the window pretty fast depending on what leaders have been appointed

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/types-of-school/[/quote]
You're right. My apologies. I confused which party was being aided/controlled.

So yes, it's the LA that aids or controls the school, not the church. I remembered entirely wrongly. It's been a while since I lived in a village with a CofE school.

I think YABU. I understand that you had no choice but to send your child to a CofE school.

But the fact remains that, whether you like it or not, your local school is a religious one and religious teachings should be expected in the classroom and on trips if the school chooses to. I think it would be naive to expect different.

I think it would be naive to expect different.

It wasn't naive at all. The vast majority of CofE schools do not proseletze. For starters many have pupils (sometimes a majority) of a different faith.They have RE lessons that might be more focused on Christianity and their assemblies might well involve Jesus. But not this. This residential appears to be an evangelical place which is about proseletyzation, and as a school trip for all, it should be questioned and challenged..

Where are all these non- C of E schools in the UK. My experience is that they by far out number the secular ones, so it is ridiculous to imply that there is really any parental decision in whether your child attends a religious school or not