School residential is religious

[Stephthegreat]

Dcs school is CofE and as there are four faith schools closest to us we sent dcs to the nearest one. Neither me or dh are religious but we support the values of the faith and the school.

The school used to go to a really fab place for residential and it was full of activities, adventuring, just a really fun weekend. Ds is due to go on camp soon and the new residential the school have chosen looks extremely religious. Ds really doesn’t enjoy this side of school and has his own ideas about faith.

The programme involves daily bible study and ‘getting to know jesus’. There are bible related games and quizzes and prayer sessions. It looks like they do bushcraft and have a bonfire too which is up Ds street. He’s a bit put off by the whole idea and I also think it’s quite serious!

AIBU?

No need to apologise, saraclara; it's constantly done, and anyway I always think the terminology's a bit confusing
After all, you'd think the "controlled" schools really are those which are controlled by the religion

My DD is going to Robinwood, just read you’re in Yorkshire and the other school near you is going there. I’m in the same situation as you with school choice so can sympathise. We couldn’t get DC into the closest secular school so they had to go to the CofE. It thankfully isn’t overly pushy with the whole God thing really aside from the daily prayer my DC have always just mouthed. The local Reverend pops in every so often for things like Harvest and the nativity, they also dish a bible out to each child leaving year 6 but that’s as far as it goes.

I wouldn’t be happy if they changed Robinwood to a Jesus camp and I know my DC wouldn’t be either. Not much you can do though sadly, just be glad it’ll all be over soon and they’ll hopefully be able to attend a secular secondary.

In the town I live it’s about 50/50 faith and community schools (both for primary and certainly for secondary as their is one of each) even then in some parts of the town it would be very difficult to get a place at a community school as they won’t be in the catchment for them and most are over subscribed

Yanbu, I went to a faith school (got a place that meant I didn't need to be religious to attend) and was fine with that even though I didn't believe. But these camps can be very different and evangelical especially if not run directly by the school. I went to one as a child once and took it all with a pinch of salt and participated in the singing etc all in good faith (pardon the pun), but one of the 'camp counsellors" took it upon herself to try and convert me and would take me aside for conversations about how I felt about the particular lesson that day. I think she was well meaning but it was quite traumatising in one such questioning session where the topic of eternal life came up and she essentially told me that my recently deceased and much adored grandma was in hell but that I should love God more than my family. I think in tears I told her that I would never love God more than my grandma and he sounded like an asshole (first time I'd ever used the word) and stormed off.

That is awful, Sandinmyknickers, however nobody would tell a child nowadays that a loved one was in Hell.

I too went to a faith school and quite enjoyed learning about the Bible. I've always been interested in beliefs of all shades. Nobody tried to convert me at school though, there was no hard sell.

The op needs to find out more about the curriculum of this residential camp before she decides whether her child is going or not. It could be low key.

I told her that I would never love God more than my grandma and he sounded like an asshole

Good for you. What a horrible thing to use against a grieving child.

My child goes to a faith school but would find that really boring. Can you ask school why it has changed from an adventure weekend into a retreat? Those things tend to be expensive and I bet a few wont want to go.

@ClumpingBambooIsALie

I told her that I would never love God more than my grandma and he sounded like an asshole

Good for you. What a horrible thing to use against a grieving child.

I agree, I would call it 'wicked' and if someone said that to my child, I'd have something to say to them.

Apart from anything else, the teacher was making a judgement about someone he knew little or nothing about, and putting himself in the place of God. I bet he never thought of that but Christians believe that God is the final arbiter, we can't tell who is in and who is out.

@crepesncream

I'm sure the children who attend this school will turn out no worse for learning about Christs teachings.

Learning good solid values about loving thy neighbour and doing on to others what you would be done by is surely a good thing. Too many children grow up with no values at all and no empathy for others.

Do you really think schools with no religious allegiance don't teach children about values? On the contrary, children there learn to apply those values because it is the right thing to do, not because God expects it.

If you want to be awkward, you can write a letter to the school opting your out of any religious activity. I have done this. My child is happy to learn about different religions, but they do not wish to participate in any active religious activity.

A recent ruling means that the school now have to provide something of equal educational value, so can't leave them just sitting in the corridor with a book for example. The more parents that do this, the more schools will have to think about providing alternatives to mindless religious activities.

But it is a STATE school - children of non-religious parents should not be fed this stuff. All children should be accommodated in every way. There should be total separation of church and state.

You have paid your taxes and have the right to send your child to a non-aligned school without having to travel miles. It is time this travesty of fairness was ended. No school under the state system should be a faith school. It is entirely wrong in principle.

What does your DS think about going on this trip now that he knows it is an indoctrination camp? I guess the ultimate decision should be his; but he and you should not be placed in this position.

My DGC goes to the local village school, which is CofE. No other choice of school. Came home the other night with a piece of paper and was very proud that he had been chosen to read it out at the Easter service. I was appalled by it: crucifixion details with all the bells and whistles, crown of thorns with dripping blood, pierced side with blood and water pouring out.

Not my child; but if it were I would be banging on the school door and saying No Way.

I suspect that it's the opposite re costs wise - a retreat would be cheaper if they don't need to hire an outdoors residential place with qualified staff vs young people doing it for free.

If its something run by young gap year people I would make sure they can answer questions not just about safeguarding but also the nature of training - is there any acreddited 3-party training used for instance, what is the oversight and who do you go to if something goes wrong.
Since I bet if they are young missionaries or voluntourists there won''t exactly be a paper trail - they want to convert children rather than teach them physical skills and teambuilding.

Just because it's a faith school doesn't mean everything always has to constantly be about Jesus though?

Erm, when you're a Christian, Jesus is supposed to be the most important aspect of our life and inform and influence everything we do! That's the whole point

But faith schools cannot assume that all their pupils are Christian. In fact, they know perfectly well that some aren't. Therefore they cannot assume that Jesus is the most important aspect of their lives, and they should not seek to impose that view on them.

OP is it run by 'Yorkshire Camps'?

My DD's village primary was ostensibly a non-denominational state school, but we still had school events/services in the church every year and the vicar was one of the governors. They had Christian religious-themed assemblies regularly also, as the law says they have to.

There is no such thing as a completely secular school in England.

@Mischance

My DGC goes to the local village school, which is CofE. No other choice of school. Came home the other night with a piece of paper and was very proud that he had been chosen to read it out at the Easter service. I was appalled by it: crucifixion details with all the bells and whistles, crown of thorns with dripping blood, pierced side with blood and water pouring out.

How is this any worse than the violent video games that kids can play where they can kill and maim others?

And, if the Bible is a fairy story, as the atheists keep telling us and Jesus never existed IRL why does it matter what happened to this imaginary person?

Have you ever read Grimms Fairy Tales or other 'Classic' fairy stories for children such as Hans Christian Andersen? We have girls getting their feet cut off, going into graveyards at night to pick nettles to weave cloth, children caged to be fattened up for a witch to eat them?

[sceptical]

How is this any worse than the violent video games that kids can play where they can kill and maim others?

The violent video games that are designed for adults and have an age rating system to prevent young children being inadvertently exposed?

@ClumpingBambooIsALie

The violent video games that are designed for adults and have an age rating system to prevent young children being inadvertently exposed?

Yes in an ideal world they do. But children still access them, in the same way the they access on-line porn.

The simple answer is for parents to write to the school and request thattheir child not participate in these religious activities.

Oh so you do accept it's a totally irrelevant comparison.

@ClumpingBambooIsALie

"Oh so you do accept it's a totally irrelevant comparison."

I have no idea what you mean

I can't do anything about your cognitive function, sorry.

[quote Thesefeetaremadeforwalking]@Mischance

My DGC goes to the local village school, which is CofE. No other choice of school. Came home the other night with a piece of paper and was very proud that he had been chosen to read it out at the Easter service. I was appalled by it: crucifixion details with all the bells and whistles, crown of thorns with dripping blood, pierced side with blood and water pouring out.

How is this any worse than the violent video games that kids can play where they can kill and maim others?

And, if the Bible is a fairy story, as the atheists keep telling us and Jesus never existed IRL why does it matter what happened to this imaginary person?

Have you ever read Grimms Fairy Tales or other 'Classic' fairy stories for children such as Hans Christian Andersen? We have girls getting their feet cut off, going into graveyards at night to pick nettles to weave cloth, children caged to be fattened up for a witch to eat them?

[sceptical][/quote]
Children aren't taught fairy stories as though they were fact.

That is the key difference here.

@ClumpingBambooIsALie

I can't do anything about your cognitive function, sorry.

And I can't do anything about your inability to engage in rational discussion, so I guess it's a stalemate

@CaptaNoctem

'Children aren't taught fairy stories as though they were fact.'

As I said, if parents aren't happy about what their DCs are being taught then they ask them to be excluded from such activities.