Page 12 | School residential is religious

Stephthegreat · 2022-03-26T20:05:04+00:00

Dcs school is CofE and as there are four faith schools closest to us we sent dcs to the nearest one. Neither me or dh are religious but we support the values of the faith and the school. The school used to go to a really fab place for residential and it was full of activities, adventuring, just a really fun weekend. Ds is due to go on camp soon and the new residential the school have chosen looks extremely religious. Ds really doesn’t enjoy this side of school and has his own ideas about faith. The programme involves daily bible study and ‘getting to know jesus’. There are bible related games and quizzes and prayer sessions. It looks like they do bushcraft and have a bonfire too which is up Ds street. He’s a bit put off by the whole idea and I also think it’s quite serious! AIBU?

EthelTheAardvark · 29/03/2022 23:15

My response does answer the question

God made humans and gave them free will

I would accept that the only logical answer is based in free will, but that isn't the answer you gave. And free will doesn't account for all suffering.

Epidermolysis bullosa is a rare inherited disease . It can be inherited from one parent or both. There is no cure. The only way to prevent it is for those who carry the gene not to have children. That means genetic testing and raises ethical issues about 'designer babies'.

The trouble is that it's not always inherited, so realistically there is no way you can guarantee preventing it. And what about those who were born with it at a time when no-one knew about a genetic connection so couldn't possibly have prevented it? And what about all the other spontaneously generated conditions that cause immense suffering?

Cell replication allows our bodies to grow and develop, yet can result in cancer when natural processes misfire

Indeed. Whilst you can say that human conduct is a major factor in many forms of cancer, it isn't in all of them. So how is that attributable to being given free will?

Genesis, the first book of the Bible, tells of God’s original creation: a perfect world, free of suffering, in which people had a direct relationship with God. God made a good world, but He allowed people to make choices, and the choices they made ultimately ruined it

If you accept Genesis as true, you accept the existence of a very cruel God. Is it really OK to inflict suffering on millions because two people with no prior experience of evil failed an arbitrary test set for them? How does is a god who is prepared to do that compatible with the notion of a perfect god whose existence makes all suffering OK?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we are entitled to a world where there is no suffering; I accept it happens for all sorts of reasons. What I don't accept is the existence a supposedly perfect, beneficent, omnipotent God who chooses to do nothing to prevent random suffering that has nothing to do with the actions of humans or the operation of human free will.

Idiotintraining · 30/03/2022 02:10

Jason donner van was on takeaway the other week 🤣

Idiotintraining · 30/03/2022 02:11

I apologise wrong thread

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 30/03/2022 03:04

@EthelTheAardvarkthel

'What I don't accept is the existence a supposedly perfect, beneficent, omnipotent God who chooses to do nothing to prevent random suffering that has nothing to do with the actions of humans or the operation of human free will.'

OK, fine, that's your opinion, which you are entitled to have.

Mischance · 30/03/2022 10:47

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we are entitled to a world where there is no suffering; I accept it happens for all sorts of reasons. What I don't accept is the existence a supposedly perfect, beneficent, omnipotent God who chooses to do nothing to prevent random suffering that has nothing to do with the actions of humans or the operation of human free will.

That about sums it up. I cannot see how anyone can argue with that.

Epicurus hit the spot ...........

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

yellowsuninthesky · 30/03/2022 10:50

I do not believe that a non church school is not accessible for you

A lot of primary schools are nominally CofE. That does not mean that they are particularly faith based. I went to one. We used to have assembly and sing a few hymns and that was about it. We certainly didn't have bible study sessions.

LadyHelenaJustina · 30/03/2022 11:14

There are plenty of areas in the country where faith schools are the only realistic option. Just because there is a non-faith school 25 minutes away doesn't mean that you will get into it.

I'd be disappointed if our school's annual PGL trip was replaced by a faith camp. Do any of the other parents feel the same as you?

Mischance · 30/03/2022 14:11

There should be no faith schools at all unless they fund themselves. We taxpayers should not have to pay for other people's beliefs being forced on our children. Wherever you live your nearest school should be a non-aligned school.

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 30/03/2022 14:44

@Mischance

Epicurus hit the spot ...........

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Ah-ha - Epicurus the founder of Epicurianism.

He also postulated that happiness is an end-in-itself and the highest good of human living. However, he identified happiness with the pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of pain rather than with the pure exercise of reason.

I expect someone will be quoting Crowley next .....

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 30/03/2022 14:56

@Mischance

"There should be no faith schools at all unless they fund themselves. We taxpayers should not have to pay for other people's beliefs being forced on our children. Wherever you live your nearest school should be a non-aligned school."

So what are you doing about this perceived 'wrong' that you believe you and your DCs are experiencing?

Are you writing to your MP ? Or raising it in appropriate quarters? Or do you prefer just to whinge about it here?

Elphame · 30/03/2022 17:58

Are you writing to your MP ? Or raising it in appropriate quarters? Or do you prefer just to whinge about it here?

With Rees Mogg as my MP ?

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 30/03/2022 18:32

@Elphame

With Rees Mogg as my MP ?

It doesn't matter if your MP is Clarence the Cross-Eyed Lion, he has to represent his constituents and their views.

Mischance · 30/03/2022 18:49

[quote Thesefeetaremadeforwalking]@Mischance

"There should be no faith schools at all unless they fund themselves. We taxpayers should not have to pay for other people's beliefs being forced on our children. Wherever you live your nearest school should be a non-aligned school."

So what are you doing about this perceived 'wrong' that you believe you and your DCs are experiencing?

Are you writing to your MP ? Or raising it in appropriate quarters? Or do you prefer just to whinge about it here? [/quote]
It is not a "perceived 'wrong'" - it is objectively absolutely wrong. The separation of church and state is a basic democratic principle, but we are in the dark ages here.

Does the expression of an opinion on Mumsnet only have validity if it is also accompanied by a letter to an MP?

I write to my MP about things that can be changed. No government is going to change this iniquitous status quo, because the different faiths subsidise these schools and the government would be forced to properly fund education itself.

Am I to assume that you believe there should be faith schools? Perhaps you would like to defend your position. I would be interested to hear your arguments.

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 30/03/2022 19:38

@Mischance

I would be interested to hear your arguments.

No you don't.

You just want me to give you a platform so you can to keep riding your own hobbyhorse.

I've said all I want to say on the issue.

I'm out.

Mischance · 30/03/2022 19:43

Oh dear!

daisyjgrey · 30/03/2022 20:08

I wouldn't send my daughter. She had to go to a CofE primary as there was no other option within an hours drive.

None of your updates have made me reconsider the "I wouldn't send them" part!

covilha · 30/03/2022 20:55

I know lots of non religious people who send their kids to faith school for the moral and social ethos- is this what you did OP. Either way, sounds as though he will be getting this on the camp. Should do him good and if you have concerns why not consider an alternative?

georama · 30/03/2022 21:42

@covilha

I know lots of non religious people who send their kids to faith school for the moral and social ethos- is this what you did OP. Either way, sounds as though he will be getting this on the camp. Should do him good and if you have concerns why not consider an alternative?

Have you read the thread?

Jaggerdagger · 30/03/2022 21:49

@Gowithme

People are being ridiculous suggesting that you should move house to avoid your local school being C of E, as if people can just up and sell their house/find a new suitable place to rent just like that. Absolute nonsense.

No, what should actually happen is that all schools should be secular and should teach a little about all religions for tolerance. The church needs to butt out of schools IMO, our local one had these little old ladies spouting all sorts of religious nonsense to the kids.

It sounds crap OP but it is what it is and I'd let him decide if he wants to attend or not. I'd also let school know how disappointed he is that the venue for the trip has changed and why - and encourage others to do the same. It might be too late to change things this year but it might help others as lets face it no child is ever going to be vaguely interested in going on a trip to do bible study.

This!

Elphame · 30/03/2022 21:52

[quote Thesefeetaremadeforwalking]@Elphame

With Rees Mogg as my MP ?

It doesn't matter if your MP is Clarence the Cross-Eyed Lion, he has to represent his constituents and their views.[/quote]
That's just it - he doesn't!

He allows his strong Catholic faith to influence how he votes in parliament.

IWanderedLonely · 30/03/2022 21:57

YABU - very.

EthelTheAardvark · 31/03/2022 00:42

@covilha

I know lots of non religious people who send their kids to faith school for the moral and social ethos- is this what you did OP. Either way, sounds as though he will be getting this on the camp. Should do him good and if you have concerns why not consider an alternative?

Tell you what, why not try reading OP's posts where you will discover the answer to both your questions. You will also discover that your post doesn't exactly cover you in glory.

Mischance · 31/03/2022 08:48

J R-M is not a great example of Catholicism - dreadful man.

JohnMcCainsDeathStare · 31/03/2022 09:14

To all those who say he could go and ask awkward questions - for the whole time of the camp? Plus if it is going to be very lovebomby, manipulatory and withe zinger that if you don't love Jesus more than your family you're gonna burn in Hell that doesn't sit right.
He is a child not a canary.
And yes, faith schools are a way for the Government to not fund education properly while hiding it under the condom of 'parental choice' as if it is assumed that it is the parents going to school?

like7 · 02/04/2022 21:22

Interesting to read how faith schools ate often the only choice in many areas. I'm in an outer London Borough and although we had a school a 2 minute walk away and a couple of others within s 10 min walk, we chose to drive 2p/25 mins so our DC could go to a state c of e school.