AIBU - to think this is vulgar as anything?

[ValerieCupcake]

It is not racist. But it is selfish.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10651179/Big-Willy-Collins-widow-accuses-council-RACISM-22-ft-high-200-000-headstone.html#newcomment

The travelling man buried in Ireland similar charges relating to burglary was buried in a 22 ct gold plated coffin wearing expensive jewellery including a rolex.
The grave had security until his family had a heavy marble covering on it.
The funeral costs estimated quarter of a million.

@Brideandprejudice you didn't even read the linked article did you?
It's hardly stereotyping when the comment was referring to him alone and something that he had actually done and been convicted for

Grotesque - £200,000 to show where somebody is buried! Disrespectful to have that music playing monstrosity in a graveyard where people go to mourn their loved ones. They need to respect planning rules like everybody else and their ridiculous threats shouldn't stop the law taking its course.

@EmeraldShamrock1

Its really irritating when Irish Caucasian travellers claim racism at the slightest criticism when they have actual no relation at all to ethnic Romani gypsies., What has the relationship to do with the price of eggs. Irish travellers are Irish why would they be related to Romani travellers. Irish travellers were tinkers steel works before plastic replaced everything. Until my 20's I believed there was English and Irish travellers, I genuinely didn't know that the English travellers were actually Irish travellers. The culture is protected like the Romani travellers.

Their culture is not protected like the Romani. My point was i find it irritating that racism is claimed whenever irish travellers are criticised when it isnt.

Romani gypsies are a specific Indo Ayran Ethnic minority group in their own right who have been persecuted for centuries.

Caucasian Irish travellers are fuck all to do with Romani but seem to claim that persecuted peoples status whenever they are criticised. That's wrong.

I am a gypsy (not the same thing as an Irish traveller) and large statues and headstones are a way to honour the dead

Shame he didn't honour the living - stealing from elderly people often contributed to their earlier deaths! Boasting he has 'gone to heaven' and having him surrounded by saints and Christian imagery is a mockery!

@SilverBirchWithout

Who are you (or we) to judge what is vulgar or tasteful? The whole point of this DM article is to pander to their readership’s (racist) attitude to travellers. As is your reason for posting this. I personally find the new trend of flowers, teddy bears and other sentimental tat being left at the place someone died or around children’s graves decidedly tasteless and mawkish. However it is not my loved one and I deeply understand different people need to express their grief in different ways, I would never comment or start a thread judging and calling something vulgar.

If they have broken the council’s cemetery rules, yes it needs to be changed. But other than this it’s is nothing to do with any of us.

Thank fuck for that, I was beginning to think I had gone beyond "woke" or something.

There are plenty of things in other cultures that seem "vulgar" or inappropriate in our Anglocentric culture, but that is down to cultural differences. What is appropriate in some cultures is not appropriate in others. We should recognise that and not be so fucking judgey.

Personally, I hate tombstones or grave markers with pictures of the deceased on. I think they're tacky, naff and vulgar. Ditto headbands on babies and pierced ears on young children. But I wouldn't want any of those things banned or removed just because they're not to my taste.

But this breaches the rules and it seems that the council were misled and gave permission for something far smaller, so I think it should go. Not because I think it's hideous (which I do), but because it breaches guidelines.

My point was i find it irritating that racism is claimed whenever irish travellers are criticised when it isnt.
I agree most critics aren't doing it from a racist POV.
They are defined as ethnic groups like Romany.
Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers are defined as ethnic groups and protected from discrimination under the Equality Act 20104. With an estimated population of between two and twenty million Gypsies in Europe, they constitute the largest ethnic minority group on the continent5.1 Jan 2017.

I think I would find that really intimidating if i was to encounter that when trying to visit a grave …

@StoneofDestiny

I am a gypsy (not the same thing as an Irish traveller) and large statues and headstones are a way to honour the dead

Shame he didn't honour the living - stealing from elderly people often contributed to their earlier deaths! Boasting he has 'gone to heaven' and having him surrounded by saints and Christian imagery is a mockery!

Quite

£200,000?!

I get the impression sometimes that the sympathy that extends to other marginalised groups despite their ways often been at odd with British culture at times, stops dead once it’s Irish Travellers time.

There are so many cases where the rules seem to change regarding this one group that, from outside, really do enforce their idea of being treated unfairly.

There was a very good documentary by Ed Stafford? I watched recently that really showed things from a fair perspective.

In the future, once we have found another scapegoat to focus on, we will finally see the people behind the stereotype and hang our heads on shame.

The same language used here that starts off about one traveller family to casually shift to implying all travellers behave this way is horrible and is racist. Replace traveller with any other minority and then you can hear it.

And justifying it just because you have direct experience of one group is not the same. This is selective discrimination- the fact that they are Irish, mostly Catholic also doesn’t help.

We cannot generalise and talk about ‘all Eastern Europeans/black people/Indian/working class’ without rightfully recognising that within a heritage there is diversity and difference. Why is it so hard to extend that understanding to travellers?

Theft is wrong, criminal activity is wrong but let’s not polarise the argument to upstanding, law abiding non travellers versus crime intent travellers.

I hate this.

@Brideandprejudice

he must have robbed plenty of pensioners to pay for that

What a disgusting racist and stereotyping assumption.

Its true! He's well known in Sheffield for it and has been convicted

I have close family buried in this cemetery. I’m going to put flowers on the grave this weekend, and I’m not particularly looking forward to seeing (or hearing) this grotesque eyesore.

The Big Fat Gypsy Wedding show, Here Come the Gypsies, didn't help things.

@ImJustMadAboutSaffron

Absolutely. This documentary showed such a balanced view.

www.channel4.com/programmes/60-days-with-the-gypsies/on-demand/70216-001

@Tillymintpolo

He’d been to prison for robbing elderly and vulnerable people so not a stereotype *@Brideandprejudice*

Apologies, I obviously missed that detail.

Being a gypsy we are often lumped together by people with Irish travellers and all assumed to be one race. I face racism every day on a scale unmatched by any other ethnic minority (in my own opinion obviously) so when I see stereotypes I react with all that in mind.

@SenoraMiasma

I get the impression sometimes that the sympathy that extends to other marginalised groups despite their ways often been at odd with British culture at times, stops dead once it’s Irish Travellers time.

There are so many cases where the rules seem to change regarding this one group that, from outside, really do enforce their idea of being treated unfairly.

There was a very good documentary by Ed Stafford? I watched recently that really showed things from a fair perspective.

In the future, once we have found another scapegoat to focus on, we will finally see the people behind the stereotype and hang our heads on shame.

The same language used here that starts off about one traveller family to casually shift to implying all travellers behave this way is horrible and is racist. Replace traveller with any other minority and then you can hear it.

And justifying it just because you have direct experience of one group is not the same. This is selective discrimination- the fact that they are Irish, mostly Catholic also doesn’t help.

We cannot generalise and talk about ‘all Eastern Europeans/black people/Indian/working class’ without rightfully recognising that within a heritage there is diversity and difference. Why is it so hard to extend that understanding to travellers?

Theft is wrong, criminal activity is wrong but let’s not polarise the argument to upstanding, law abiding non travellers versus crime intent travellers.

I hate this.

Well I'm Irish and notionally Catholic and like another poster here, am mortified at the conduct of some of my fellow countrymen from this ethnic group both home and away. I would treat any individual traveller fairly and not prejudge them but it is simply undeniable that there are aspects of the communities culture that range on a spectrum from distasteful (e.g the grave scenario) to abhorrent (treatment of animals, criminal activity taegeted against vulnerable people, etc). Perhaps the greatest victims of traveller culture are travellers themselves - they have appalling rates of suicide, mental health issues, early mortality, etc. And while some of this can be attributed to prejudice in wider society, some of it is due to the internal culture and self destructive habits. What is so infuriating is that it wasnt always this bad, there was a place in Irish society for Travellers, a level of mutual respect and while there was prejuduce of course, the overall relationship at an everyday level was arguably much better. When I was a child, my father let Travellers camp on our land for a time, for example. I think the chances of that happening now are virtually nil. Society has changed, many of the traditional sustaining activities carried out by Travellers have disappeared and a lot of what's replaced it is not good. It is very tough, especially for girls and for those who love their community and families but want something different and there are no easy answers. But pretending there is no internal problem and its all because of prejudice from the settled community will not help anything to change

£200 000 would buy you a whole street in Sheffield, surely?

@ChiaraRimini

£200 000 would buy you a whole street in Sheffield, surely?

Actually anything from 2 houses to half a 3 bed semi, depending on area.

I lost my fil last year
He was cremated but if his wife (my mil) had chosen to have him buried instead,and I wanted to go to his graveside and grieve for him,the last thing I’d want is that bloody thing there
There are others buried there-it’s not for them to take over and fuck everyone else
If they wanted something so big,tacky and vulgar (and that’s their choice) then buy your own land and shove it there
Not take over everyone else’s rights to grieve

Shame their respect for the dead, didn't extend to the new memorial garden. Created for families who have lost a baby. A bunch of them set up camp next too, in a public park it and deliberately trashed it. Causing 100's of pounds of damage and a lot of heartache for the families involved.

i'd like a hundred ferret statues with a spouting gravy fountain. it's in my will.

Wow. It’s got led lights and a solar powered juke box. It’s unbelievable. Imagine your loved one is buried next to that and you have to put up with the music and flashing disco lights when you visit their grave.

The musical part of the 'memorial'