AIBU- Can't afford to work

[MissRja]

Just trying to work out a return to work after having a baby In December ( also have a 4 year old in full time school ) unfortunately, my original plans for childcare have fell through, which now means we are looking at paid childcare. My current job have declined My flexible working request , which means I am looking for another job. Due to school pick up/ drops offs I am looking returning on reduced hours over 5 days or term time only. Have worked our I will be bringing home roughly £1200 after tax per month. Nursery fees will be £1100 for a four week month, or £1375 for a 5 week month. This does not include before / after school club fees. If I was to use my wages alone to pay childcare fees I would actually be losing money to work , especially when factoring in petrol , work clothes etc. Surely this can't be right. How in this day and age can I not afford to go to work !! Its ridiculous. The whole reason I am going back is because we can't afford to live off DP wages alone , but it doesn't seem like it will make a difference if i do go back to work. Am i missing something here ? What does everyone else do to work around this ? Would love to hear your experiences / advice !!

@MissRja

I think some people are getting a bit rude about this ... at no point did I say I wanted subsidies or anything like that to pay for my childcare. I asked how other people manage when childcare costs more than the take home pay. I understand for a lot of people career progression is a really important Factor. For my family, having enough money to cover everything and to live on is our priorty. There are also a lot of people who clearly do not understand how UC works. They don't just pay 70 or 80% of childcare. And I have done a calculator we are not entitled to any help. My DP is not a high earner but not on minimum wage. He earns an average wage, but this just not stretch far enough to cover everything. For example, take home pay : 2000 Mortgage : 700 Council tax:200 Gas/ Electricity: 200 Water: 45 DP Van ( for work so essential ) 150 per month DP Petrol: 200- 250 per month Food: 320 per month Insurances: 50 per month This leaves us with 85 per month spare money

These costs also do not include petrol for my car which I need for school run , shopping etc. I also can't walk to school as its too far away.

All clothing / items for the children comes from the child benefit money. We survive at the moment because I receive smp but when this ends I clearly need to work as we need the additonal money. But if this is taken up by childcare we are in deficit so am trying to work away around this. And with UC we are not entitled to any support on these figures as not classed as low earners.

Sorry for the long reply but I'm getting annoyed at people stipulating that I'm loaded and just don't want to pay!

Thank-you so much to those of you who are giving practical advice and sharing what you do ,it's really helpful

It’s not any assumption that your loaded at all, when I was a SAHM we didn’t even have £85 a month after bills and food and that’s including the child benefit. However it’s kind of what we expected when found out pregnant as obviously our children needed to be taken care of snd funded hours don’t kick in till 3 plus we had a mortgage, which is a privilege and investment do not eligible for the same help as rent. It did seem very unfair to me at the time the idea bandied about that implied that only dual income couples should be entitled to extra support (childcare) and even though we’re in that boat now I still very much stand by that opinion. When I started did a bit of work in the evenings and weekends while hubby was home that helped and not sure why more people don’t consider that? There is also the marriage allowance worth £260 and can still claim if earning almost to the tax threshold. Are you sure your not entitled to anything as when I looked on entitled.com a couple on net 2k a month with 2 children were entitled to £235 universal credit a month (plus child benefit on top) plus a loan to help towards your mortgage if you wanted too. If you would be entitled to that you would be entitled to childcare help too, although yes of course you can’t expect 85% of costs paid if hubby bringing in 2k plus whatever you would bring in. It’s about you having enough to live and afford the odd day out, modest birthday presents etc like the rest of us with young children, not necessarily having the lifestyle you had before.

@MissRja

I think some people are getting a bit rude about this ... at no point did I say I wanted subsidies or anything like that to pay for my childcare. I asked how other people manage when childcare costs more than the take home pay. I understand for a lot of people career progression is a really important Factor. For my family, having enough money to cover everything and to live on is our priorty. There are also a lot of people who clearly do not understand how UC works. They don't just pay 70 or 80% of childcare. And I have done a calculator we are not entitled to any help. My DP is not a high earner but not on minimum wage. He earns an average wage, but this just not stretch far enough to cover everything. For example, take home pay : 2000 Mortgage : 700 Council tax:200 Gas/ Electricity: 200 Water: 45 DP Van ( for work so essential ) 150 per month DP Petrol: 200- 250 per month Food: 320 per month Insurances: 50 per month This leaves us with 85 per month spare money

These costs also do not include petrol for my car which I need for school run , shopping etc. I also can't walk to school as its too far away.

All clothing / items for the children comes from the child benefit money. We survive at the moment because I receive smp but when this ends I clearly need to work as we need the additonal money. But if this is taken up by childcare we are in deficit so am trying to work away around this. And with UC we are not entitled to any support on these figures as not classed as low earners.

Sorry for the long reply but I'm getting annoyed at people stipulating that I'm loaded and just don't want to pay!

Thank-you so much to those of you who are giving practical advice and sharing what you do ,it's really helpful

I've not read any other replies, so apologies if always said.

Your ohs business expenses should be coming directly out of the business, not your income. If they're not then it would be worth reviewing how the business is setup with an expert and what he is or isn't claiming etc.

With an income of 31k gross, approx, I'd apply for uc regardless of the calculators. They may well award as the thresholds have changed and some people get childcare paid with a nil/low payment. I wouldn't right this off entirely until I'd tried as you have a number of children this increases the likelihood of your eligibility.

One of you drop off and the other pick up. After school club usually runs for 2 hours after school and nursery is usually open till 6pm so why don't you go to work early and then you do the pick ups. Husband can do the drop offs in the morning

@MissRja
Of course UC won’t always pay 80% childcare, it is a sliding scale. I appreciate you have used an example but using that scenario. A family with 2 children one earner with 2k a month net and one SAHP, no mortgage would be entitled to almost £200 a month UC. If the other parent earned £1200 a month with your childcare costs then they would be entitled to over £600 a month UC.

So not 80% but more than £400 is 30% and more than tax free childcare (you can’t claim both) The cut off is high with childcare costs even a joint net income of 4K would attract a small amount of UC.

I haven't read the full thread so sorry if I am repeating previous advice.
Have you looked at childminders they are often cheaper than nurseries.
Could you possibly work fewer longer days, say 3x 8-6 shifts which would be the equivalent of 9-3 5 days.
You could find a childminder who drops of and picks up from your eldest school.
If they went for an hour before and 3 hours after and your youngest was there 30 hours a week at £6/hour that would work out at around £1000 a month. Not ideal but once your youngest is 3 they would be entitled to the 30 hours a week funding. We used this with our childminder spread across the year rather than term time so they got about 21 hours a week.

Sorry I haven't read all of the replies but you asked what everyone else did to get around this dilemma so here's what we did:

The childcare costs didn't come out of my wages alone. We opened a joint account and started budgeting according to our total income.

We worked out what our bottom-line would be in terms of necessary outgoings (i.e. took all unneccessary things out of our budget - haircuts, holidays, meals out...)

We worked out the minimum I would have to work to cover our bottom line, also factoring in that DH would have to reduce his hours to cover those days.

So we spent 3 years with me working 1 day per week and DH working 4 days per week. So zero childcare costs. We lived very frugally during this time but it worked and it was actually a really happy time for us. I got to be (mostly) at home when the DC were little, DH got some time to himself with them too, and I also kept a foot in the door at work.

Over time we were able to increase due to payrises and the 30 hours free when they turned 3. Now (11 years after having our first dc) DH worked 5 days per week and I work 2.5 days.

Now that our youngest is about to start school, I'm looking to retrain so that I can work in a job that fits more easily into school hours (working from home) so that I can maximise my earnings.

I’m really sorry it’s such a struggle must be really challenging.
I would echo what the others are saying about looking into childminders - I’ve had mine now since my eldest was 9 months and she’s still looking after them now in school holidays and he’s 9! She’s ofstead outstanding too and they have former fab friendships there.
And definitely look into tax free childcare as it’s an option for you both to save on tax. Even if you could find another job a couple of days or evenings per week it may be good for you just to have your own space and time, plus you’ll be contributing to NI and the kids will benefit from being socialised.
We definitely felt the pinch when we had 2 in childcare and that was only 3 days a week. It was a huge relief when we started getting the 3 year old childcare funding.
I’m sure there is something about lower earners being able to do something with their tax so that the other half can benefit - not sure how it works though if he’s self employed and think you need to be married

www.turn2us.org.uk/Get-Support,

OP you can use this site to calculate all entitlements including childcare etc. If you look at the different scenarios it will help you work out if there is any support you didn't know about and also make it clearer what is best for your family situation. Good luck!

Op you may not qualify for UC payments but you may qualify for childcare help. Have you done the entitled to calculator with the childcare costs included. You may be surprised!

Some ridiculous posts from some people.

It says something when two working adults can’t afford an average family in this day and age. At £700 your housing costs aren’t even on the high side compared to some rents.

It’s wrong op.

I can’t give much of a reply but what I can say is that staying at home with your child with no spare cash for day to day activities and watching every penny is a very miserable life and I only survived it because I was able to take in ironing (my children are grown up now so it was a few years ago) I did market research, bought and sold things on eBay, was able to buy nice things from charity shops so my children didn’t go without but it was far from ideal.

As a qualified nursery nurse I stopped when I had my eldest son because I couldn’t afford nursery out of my wage (crazy, same nursery where I would have worked) so I cleaned in supermarkets, tested light bulbs in a factory, waited on tables using my father in law for childcare!!.

So now I’m in my 40s, children grown and instead of advancing in my career I’m working in my partners family business and I feel guilty of a wasted career.
My sons have done well gone to uni etc despite me being a single parent for much of this time.

You have to think past today and tomorrow and think of the long haul and yourself and children benefit so very much from having parents in work and from professional nursery care.

This is horrible! I was in a similar situation but lucky enough to have a permanent part time job before having a baby. I work three days a week and foot the bill from my wages to pay for nursery which is £650 a month then universal credit pay me back 85% of the costs in six weeks. Not an ideal situation but hope this info helps!

Wow I cannot believe now much man bashing there is on this post! Sometimes life just doesn't work out how it should be or how you want it to me. My partner is a sahm, our choice. She could work and earn £1200 a month to supplement my £3000 a month. But childcare would rob us of £1300 a month. Why work? But agreed not to, we agreed to cut back, struggle for the benefit of our daughter. Once we get 15 free hours of childcare then DP will head back to work. 3 years of struggle but we feel it is worth it. I had a stay at home home and my parents struggled with my dad working long hours but it worked well for them. Please stop the man bashing on here and accept people's situations and advise accordingly; as some of you have done.

As a parent of grown up children reading this thread breaks my heart. It seems that families have to endure so much stress at a time when they’re small children are growing up fast, taken out of the family home to be cared for by, I’m sure, nice people but those people don’t actually love them. You will never get that precious time back. I have always thought mothers (or fathers) should get a decent subsidy to look after their own children pre school. Even better, a universal income could make the situation easier. Of course if you love your job and want to go back, that’s fine too, but those who do will be able to get cheaper child care because the demands will be less.

*their children

@Homerlovesdonuts it’s great YOU think it’s worth it.
But what you have heard here is the WOMEN’s pov if the situation, which, unsurprisingly, is quite different.
It’s not because it’s working great for you as the income earning partner that it’s working great and is Wo issue for the non earning partner.
And of course, that’s Wo taking a outbthe fact you are partners and not married.

Its nit about bashing men. It’s about how fragile the position of the non earning partner is. It would be true whether the non earning partner is a man or a woman (in this case it happens to be a woman - like it’s the case in 90% of the time) and whether the earning partner is a man or a woman (in this case, like in most cases too, it si happens thé earning partner is man)

@Shell4429 I think there is a pull and push situation for women between finding a way to keep their young dcs at home and keeping their career going.
Yes more support would be great.
Even better would be for the mum and the dad to take EQUAL time off to look after the child.
1- it would give the opportunity for fathers to bond with their child
2- it would allow for equality in parenting right from the start rather than women having to fight against the ‘daddy is babysitting’ mentality
3- it would mean better equality in the work place for men and women

For me the fact fathers are not fighting to get equal rights to women to actually have some time off and look after their dcs says a lot about their own priorities/wanting time to bond with their dcs/enjoying those first years 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Not read the full thread but all of OPs posts. @MissRja If you are an experienced trainer then have you looked at Call Centres? I know the industry well and being a trainer in a call centre can be very flexible. I agreed Term Time only working for one of my trainers and simply planned my recruitment and training schedule to take in to account their availability.

You may need to start off on a full or part time basis, pass your probation period then request flexible working to get those hours but call centres in general can be very flexible.

A lot of the training is also being delivered online now with a hybrid WFH and this means you can duck out for the school run and then log back in to do some of your non-training activities like planning once you're back home and the kids are settled.

Generally the work arounds aren't ideal but sometimes they are the only way. When mine were little my teenage brother was living with me and he took mine and a neighbours kids to school. Neighbour collected them all most days (she worked in husband's business so fairly flexible) if she was busy at work she'd pick them up and drop them at my mothers until I got home. They finished school at 3.30 and I was home by 4.30 as I worked 8 till 4. I had her kids Saturday morning when she was working.

Another friend of mine agreed with another family that she wouldn't go back to work and have hers and their kids fulltime, the other mum split her wages with her.

You might not know anyone you could match up with but although not ideal those things got us through.

I hope you can work something out. I've done all the childcare for my GC, pick ups from school, holiday care etc and I'm not sure their parents realise how much I've saved them.

In our case -
DP also applied for flexible working. He started later 2 days and did the drop off. I did pick up.
He finished early on one day and did the pick up - I did the drop off.
Meant I could work 3 full days at my job. Also got a 2nd job 2 evenings a week until the kids were at school to make some money up
We weren’t rich but lived comfortably and could still afford some extras - holidays etc

Maybe look for a job WFH? Or work nights? Supermarkets are always looking for night workers. Dh would have to get up for the DC though.

Working nights?
Do you mean the OP working during the night and then looking after two children during the day?
When is she supposed to sleep?

Same with wfh? The OP wouldn’t be able to look after a baby and work.

These are non starters until both are at school at the very least.

@Dillydollydingdong

Maybe look for a job WFH? Or work nights? Supermarkets are always looking for night workers. Dh would have to get up for the DC though.

When is she supposed to sleep. And you can't WFH with small children. You can make a half arsed attempt in pandemic lockdown at a push.

Did you not do this match before planning kids? We delayed having 2nd child for seven years for the same reason, but we ended up with twins! After paying for childcare, I hardly had anything left. But it’s better now. It’s hard for a few years, but finances can improve significantly once the youngest starts school. Also by then you’ll hopefully get some pay rises/ promotions.