To say this pissed me off about my booking appointment ?

[chattycaterpillar]

I had a pregnancy booking appointment recently, and was talking to a friend about this yesterday, and she agreed this equally pissed her off about her's too, ( she had hers 12 months ago in the same NHS trust).

The actual medical questions were almost skimmed over, ( I wasn't asked if I had any medication allergies, even though I have a serious allergy to doxycycline). But the amount of nosy, social questions asked to "judge," your suitability to parent was ridiculous.

Examples on the proforma list included:

• How long have you been with your partner ? ( Yes, it is a long-term relationship so wasn't an issue for me, but my friend's child was conceived after a short fling and she didn't want to be answering exactly how long it was).

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ? ( I'm educated to degree level, but interested in the medical relevance of this. Imagine getting asked that at any other medical appointment ...)

• Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ? What does your partner do for work ? ( Why on earth is it medically relevant what my partner does as his job ? )

• Does your partner have any other children ? ( No, but again, not medically relevant...)

• Do you own or rent your property ? ( Why, do you want to take a look at my mortgage deeds....)

Seemed to be a lot more interested in asking a list of nosy, intrusive questions than either a) a serious physical health condition I have that could impact the birth, or b) my medication allergies.

I'm just trying to work out in what other medical scenario this would be appropriate...

@ASandwichNamedKevin

You are either lacking in imagination or very naive if you think these aren't important questions.

And if as you say the man is a shit dad, well if women knowingly go ahead and decide to have a baby with him then their judgement may be questionable too.

Pregnancy is a dangerous time for many women, and early childhood a dangerous time for many children.
If you're fortunate enough to not have any issues then surely you can just answer the questions so they can get on. Some people don't realise the support available to them so it's useful for HCP to know their circumstances.

Completely agree with this. The people getting offended over these questions need to open their eyes and realise they are questions for everyone and there are many circumstances where the answers to those questions will be really important.

It's ridiculous to be offended and very narrow minded to only think of your own small world in these circumstances.

Wow, never go through the adoption process if these basic questions bothered you so much

when i was asked those sorts of questions i was saying huh? etc and the midwife said that someone else had said to her that the questions were so nosey (she felt) that she (the other patient) was half expecting to be asked which position they were in when they conceived. which made me laugh even though it was years ago.

Its an Interesting assumption that a woman with a long term partner will have a support network at home.
I didn’t. We’d been together 14 years when we had our first
Baby arrived and he was out all day every day and every single evening for at least the first three months - because he didn’t like crying babies
I didn’t see him at all really

@babywalker56

Also, supposing I had said I'm single/ baby conceived via a one night stand, only been together for a few weeks, what actual support could they refer you into for that ?

Literally what support could they give you? None.

I've had my fair share of interesting questions that makes me think what the hell but the one that gets me recently is health professionals asking if my kids have the same dad....

I have a 10 month old and I'm 36 weeks pregnant. So I got pregnant with my second when my first was only 3 months. Every single health professional I've come into contact with (except for my GP) has asked if they have the same dad. They do have the same dad but what exactly are they going to do if they didn't? Raise an eyebrow at me, jot it down and move onto the next question?

I personally stuggle to see how that question is asked in a way to help and support you rather than to judge you. It 100% is to judge you

They ask if they have the same dad because you’re at higher risk for preeclampsia if you’re having a baby with a new partner. It’s so they can keep an eye out for it. It’s got nothing to do with judging you. Midwives see hundreds of women every year - some in horrendous circumstances - and they make a huge, sometimes life saving or life changing impact on some women and their babies, and they do that by being aware of the risks. They’re really not that interested in your personal life beyond doing a risk assessment on it.

@Jobseeker19

They don't care about additional support.

I was asked these questions when I lived on a mattress on the floor in someone's house at 17. It didn't help me get moved on or additional support.

It didn't help me that they knew this. Everything carried on the same.

You should try being muslim, they will ask you if you are related to your husband and if you have been cut (fgm).

Not Muslim but I was asked at my booking appointment last year if I had been cut so it probably isn't just Muslim's that would be asked

Do you know how unbelievably smug you sound?

No other medical procedure results in the creation of a completely helpless new life that has an independent set of rights so it really doesn't matter what your situation is when you're having your appendix out or getting a colonoscopy.

I’ve always said that I don’t mind being asked any number of personal questions by midwives/HVs/nursery etc, because if it protects an innocent baby even once then my mild middle class discomfort is entirely worth it, so YABU.

You see whilst I personally would not be in a relationship with somebody who had children they chose not to see, I think it's completely unprofessional for a HCP to be quizzing an expectant mother about why her partner doesn't see his other kids. If he is a shit dad, he should be the one getting stick, not her

Why do you assume that asking you the question equates to getting stick? If you tell the midwife your partner doesn't choose to see his other children, she's not going to start shouting at you for having a baby with him. She will just note it on the file so that they can make some inquiries to check whether he was abusive, and possibly let the health visitor know because it might mean you need more support with the baby.

Yes , I got asked the same, (again obviously not !) But surely someone in a secretly incestuous relationship is not going to say to the midwife, "yes, my brother's the father !

But if you were asked about any blood ties to the father and were in a perfectly legal relationship with a cousin, presumably you would say so - and they need to know to check for possible genetic problems in the baby.

I think you must be quite naive if you think those questions aren't relevant. I work in criminal law and can totally see that by asking them they would be picking up a good many issues that I see in our clients and their partners. We have a lot of ABHs/GBH and controlling and coercive behaviour charges and it's naive to think that the questions are designed to have a nosy at age gaps. These questions are designed for everyone regardless of the circumstances so that question could in fact detect a father who is a youth. As people have said, it's just trying to detect the level of support a new mum would need.

Honestly, you can’t win. On one hand you have people saying

“It’s ridiculous you need a licence to drive a car but anyone can just have a baby!’

And then at the same time you have

‘How dare the central support team for me during pregnancy ask questions that could directly help support my child once they’re here?’

I give up

In a queue of booking in and I was the only one asked to prove my entitlement to nhs. I watched the desk after that as I waited nope I was the only who had to produce my passport. I was chosen because of my (foreign) name was the response when asked. Thankfully I had been warned when they rung with the appointment. The midwife kept asking about support in this country too.
Do you know the funny thing - I’m English born and bred - with a bit of Irish on my nan’s side - it’s just I’m married to someone who was born elsewhere. No one seemed to have heard of mixed marriage. Does this matter? Well actually yes as it meant I didn’t have the correct bloods completed.

So yes @chattycaterpillar I agree they have gone to far with their obsession of the social side as they are not concentrated on the medial side.

Just think a bit harder about it…

I think they ask questions too often in an insensitive way and often make inappropriate comments.

When pg with ds1 I had already lost a baby at 17 weeks "is it a planned pregnancy?" etc.

When pg with DS2 they were doing home bookings. Midwife asked if ds2 had the same father as ds1 - there was a two year gap and I'd just told her about the miscarriage at 12 weeks six months earlier. Add in the fact that our dating wedding photo's were on show and she must have repeated three times that ds1 was very quiet having been told the au-pair had taken him to the park so she and I had peace and privacy. I also told her I was unsure about bf due to previous problems which were distressing. She wrote will breatfeed. She had significant listening and tact issues imo. Which didn't stop a snarky comment about being lucky to have our house and not having to work when she and her partner were in tiny rented flat.

Sadly ds2 had a congenital heart deformity incompatible with life. He was born at 27 weeks and didn't survive so I do question the the sensitivity of some of these meetings because things don't always work out well enough for it to be brushed aside in the scheme of healthy babies and happy times. When I did go into labour at 27 weeks there was a scramble to get dh to the hospital. I was asked where he was by a midwife and told her he would be there as quickly as possible but was in court. Cue the head midwife arriving at the bed five minutes later and patronisingly saying "I hear your husband is in court - that must be very stressful for you". "well it is if it's a big case but you get used to it" I then realised they thought he was in front of the beak and had to explain that no, he was the prosecuting barrister. She then told me off for causing them worry needlessly. I think my words were a little choice when I snapped back it was in the notes and a shame they didn't read them if they asked the question. The consultant later apologised for their behaviour.

I guess what I'm saying is there's probably not point asking questions when all too often the staff don't bother reading the notes which in my experience happened more often than not.

I think they judge all ways. I was certainly judged for being happily married and having no issues. Personally I'd like to see a bit more focus on clinical issues because they too frequently missed issues that led to more serious issues and that's the most important thing when one is having a baby.

With dd I had consultant led care after the booking (again lack of listening and inaccurate recording of information). No silly nonsense or over familiar chatter at appointments with the consultant. He dealt with me as a sentient human who wanted another baby. It makes a world of difference.

@EthelTheAardvark

You see whilst I personally would not be in a relationship with somebody who had children they chose not to see, I think it's completely unprofessional for a HCP to be quizzing an expectant mother about why her partner doesn't see his other kids. If he is a shit dad, he should be the one getting stick, not her

Why do you assume that asking you the question equates to getting stick? If you tell the midwife your partner doesn't choose to see his other children, she's not going to start shouting at you for having a baby with him. She will just note it on the file so that they can make some inquiries to check whether he was abusive, and possibly let the health visitor know because it might mean you need more support with the baby.

Yes , I got asked the same, (again obviously not !) But surely someone in a secretly incestuous relationship is not going to say to the midwife, "yes, my brother's the father !

But if you were asked about any blood ties to the father and were in a perfectly legal relationship with a cousin, presumably you would say so - and they need to know to check for possible genetic problems in the baby.

Yes - marriage between cousins is the norm in the Pakistani community in areas such as Bradford, and is a very significant factor in child deaths, most of them neonatal.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/15/cousin-marriages-cited-as-significant-factor-bradford-child-deaths

But by all means, OP, carry on making idiotic jokes about it from your position of smug ignorance.

@Kidsaregrim

How long have you been with your partner ?

Relevant for the level of support you have, is it a stable relationship

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ?

Data capture that gives the government statistics to what sort of demographic children are born into.

• Are you employed ?

Can you support your child, does the midwife need to signpost you to services that may help you, universal credits, child benefit, etc

• Does your partner have any other children

Who do they live with, are social services involved and if so why? Very common to have domestic violence relationship where the father can not see the children and he hops to another woman and starts a new family and she is completely in the dark

• Do you own or rent your property ?

No we don’t, but do you have a secure tenancy or are about you lose your home, again can you be offered further support

I'm just trying to work out in what other medical scenario this would be appropriate...

Domestic violence usually starts in pregnancy
Children under 1 are the most vulnerable category
Unfortunately some people become pregnant and do not have a job, home, or any support

You won’t be asked in any other medical profession until you become pregnant or are a mother, it’s no longer just about you.

Women generally are very forthcoming with medical conditions but not so much safeguarding information.

A bit of advice though, you and your friend could have asked the midwife why she wanted to information and it would be my suggestion that you ask about EVERYTHING, be very passionate about your pregnancy and always ask questions!

Good luck

Much of this is not needed for the wellbeing and care of the mother and baby but is part of data capture.

Its the level of detail which is the issue. Women can fill in their own questionnaires around categories, without providing anything like the level of detail demanded and then midwives can spend the booking in session focusing on the mother.

There would be nothing wrong with having a voluntary "extra info" section for demographic collection.

Not all questions are relevant to everyone but they need to ask every person in case things are missed. E.g a 15 year old booking - it would be relevant if the partner was 60. For you it’s not relevant and seems intrusive but it’s to keep some people safe.

OP you’re being very naive if you genuinely can’t understand the reason for these questions.
I had a patient who got pregnant, and her father was the baby’s father. As far as she was concerned they were in a relationship. He was her Dad, she loved him, and that’s what people who love each other do isn’t it. She was physically healthy so there was no medical history to ask about. So, by your reasoning, her booking appointment should have been “hi, are you physically well? Yes, great. Family support? Yes, great. OK, congratulations on your pregnancy, I’ll get your scan booked in, bye!”

Can you see how a social history is essential? And just so you’re aware, midwives have access you your medical records so they’ll know your history, meds and allergies already.

The thing is people with very low IQ's are more likely to be neglectful so it is relevant.

I think those of you saying that midwives won't judge the answers are being incredibly naive. The 'midwifery team' at our local GP surgery consists of 3 school mums, 2 of which are the most gossipy, stuck up, judgemental arseholes I've ever come across.

Of course some midwives judge!

As others have said , these questions aren't being asked to judge you but they are being asked to assess risk. They need to know whether you or your baby are likely to be a risk or if you need additional support.
They might not apply to you but not everyone lives a straightforward life. They have a duty of care and I'm glad they ask them.

You can decline to answer them.

I had a baby in 2016 and do not remember being asked a single one of these questions. I went to Liverpool Women's and had my baby and was basically left alone and nothing intrusive was done. This must be new?

Do you seriously think healthcare professionals who are stressed and exhausted (midwifery is crumbling, you’re lucky you’ve got a midwife at all to be honest) , have got the time or inclination to be “nosy”? They’re doing their job. They have a list of questions that have been drawn up as a screening tool to try and identify risky situations early on, and they have to ask them. None of it is driven by the midwife’s idle curiosity. Just be thankful you’re lucky enough to be one of the ones whose circumstances are happy and stable.

I remember being quite shocked when I was given a leaflet about domestic violence when I went in for my booking in appointment. At that time I had no idea that the risk of DV increases during pregnancy.

Once I started having midwife appointments DH used to come too as my midwife worked evenings so I would have the appointment on the way home from work and I car shared with DH so made sense fit him to come in too. Again, didn’t realise this was a potential red flag.

I was very naive in my cosy little pregnancy bubble with DH. It’s very sad to know that not everyone has that same experience. But if these questions can help someone then they are a good thing.