To say this pissed me off about my booking appointment ?

[chattycaterpillar]

I had a pregnancy booking appointment recently, and was talking to a friend about this yesterday, and she agreed this equally pissed her off about her's too, ( she had hers 12 months ago in the same NHS trust).

The actual medical questions were almost skimmed over, ( I wasn't asked if I had any medication allergies, even though I have a serious allergy to doxycycline). But the amount of nosy, social questions asked to "judge," your suitability to parent was ridiculous.

Examples on the proforma list included:

• How long have you been with your partner ? ( Yes, it is a long-term relationship so wasn't an issue for me, but my friend's child was conceived after a short fling and she didn't want to be answering exactly how long it was).

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ? ( I'm educated to degree level, but interested in the medical relevance of this. Imagine getting asked that at any other medical appointment ...)

• Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ? What does your partner do for work ? ( Why on earth is it medically relevant what my partner does as his job ? )

• Does your partner have any other children ? ( No, but again, not medically relevant...)

• Do you own or rent your property ? ( Why, do you want to take a look at my mortgage deeds....)

Seemed to be a lot more interested in asking a list of nosy, intrusive questions than either a) a serious physical health condition I have that could impact the birth, or b) my medication allergies.

I'm just trying to work out in what other medical scenario this would be appropriate...

If he is a shit dad, he should be the one getting stick, not her.

I think the important thing here is that it isn't just about the woman and the partner anymore. They are also looking at the future needs of the child. If he is a shit dad to his existing children, he is likely to be a shit dad to this one too and the mum might well need extra support during and after the birth.

@BadgerB

Intrusive questions - Back in the early 1960s, as a young woman of 20 I was asked at a job interview "have you got a serious boyfriend?" and "do you live at home with your parents?". The required answer to the first was "no", and to the second, "yes".

My children and grandchildren are horrified at this. Times change, thankfully. Why are pregnant women subjected to this sort of inquisition?

Not the same thing at all 🙄

Read the thread - the explanation has been given over and over (1. Statistical gathering 2. Identification of risk / requirement for support).

I wasn't asked any of these things. But I went private and only saw a consult so missed a huge amount of the midwife bollocks. Best money I ever spent, meant I was given proper medical advice and had a sensible conversation at every appointment

I wasn't asked any of that, it must be specific to some trusts. I can see why you are annoyed, OP. Just like the rest of maternity care it is patronising and based on the assumption that a woman can't make neighter her medical decision nor life decision without the intervention of under qualified midwife personnel.

They really aren’t interested in having a ‘nosy’ about you, your friend, or any of the hundreds of other women they see. Seriously, why would they care?
The information gathered is useful to identify risk factors that have a real outcome on maternal outcomes, and to gather more data to do the same in the future. They are not making personal judgements, but using the wider data to inform the care and support you may need. You may be in a privileged position in that none of these answers are going to make a difference to your care, but it’s naive to think they’re irrelevant.

• How long have you been with your partner ? ( Yes, it is a long-term relationship so wasn't an issue for me, but my friend's child was conceived after a short fling and she didn't want to be answering exactly how long it was).

Because some people are in slightly chaotic situations and may need more support. Nobody is judging.

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ? ( I'm educated to degree level, but interested in the medical relevance of this. Imagine getting asked that at any other medical appointment ...).

The govt ask trusts to collect the answer to this question as they record the stats on it at a National level.

• Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ? What does your partner do for work ? ( Why on earth is it medically relevant what my partner does as his job ? ).

Could potentially be very relevant if for example they’re a sheep farmer and you live on a sheep farm.

• Does your partner have any other children ? ( No, but again, not medically relevant...).

Very necessary to ask thjs from a safeguard point of view. Many issues are picked up by thjs question. If he has kids but has no contact with them why not. You’d be amazed at the amount of dads banned from contact with older kids who move on.

• Do you own or rent your property ? ( Why, do you want to take a look at my mortgage deeds....).

That question is determined by the govt. the govt ask trusts to ask these type of questions and it all goes back to the govt for national level stats purposes. But on an individual basis to see if you need help, many pregnant women are in unsuitable housing and maternity services can help, advocate with housing officers, etc.

@Frenchie8690 ahhh of course! Because women who can afford to go private don't need to be screened for domestic abuse and violence! And if you're consanguinous then the consultant can wave a magic wand and make that go away 🤦🏻‍♀️ silly me!

Dad's DOB is asked because they now realise that the father's age can lead to more risks, just as the mother's age can.

@chattycaterpillar

Oh and they also wanted to know my partner's date of birth. Why ?! I've been for surgery before under anesthetic and they've never asked that. My partner and I are the same age, (29), but my friend sad it's for them to have a nosy at unsuitable age gaps.....but if i'd have said my partner was 60, what would they actually be able to do ?!

There’s a lot of evidence saying that the age of father can affect the chances of various syndromes. So could be useful for that.

Oh and they’re not asking about your medicine allergies because they weren’t giving you any medicine. So why would that be relevant. When you’re in hospital they’ll ask you then.

My midwife asked these ‘ judgmental’ questions and I felt able to tell her that actually husband had just left and I had no family near by.As a result, I got lots of support through pregnancy and later on too. It was unpleasant realising I was now classed as a vulnerable parent but I’m glad my situation was picked up! I coped well in the end but could have had a different outcome. Be glad OP that you are in such a secure position. Good luck.

You really are being obtuse despite people explaining why the questions are important!

As for the allergies/c-section you could have brought that up yourself. Realistically they will cover that in future appointments

Good for you that you are in a stable relationship, have financial stability, are highly educated etc. Many expectant mothers are stuck in domestic violence situations, are financially bereft and can’t read. Midwives don’t just exist to help medically. They can help women leave abusive relationships. They can help make sure they know what financial help they are entitled too should they need it. They can provide information in a non written format to help with low reading comprehension skills. None of it is about being noisy. It’s so arrogant of you to think midwives have time to ask questions just to have a wee noisy at your oh so fascinating life.

As for the medical questions, yea they should spend time on them but the reality is that they will actually already known the answer to most of them from your NHS record.

Honestly speaking, after the amount of children lost this year at the hands of their abusive parents I get so fed of up people whinging about universal screening questions asked.
When those poor children were lost it was professionals who had the finger pointed for not being curious enough, for overlooking things.
Just accept that not all parents are going to be stable parents and they need some support. And some may be downright abusive. Asking those kind of questions helps them work out who those people may be.

Lots of very small factors can pick up if a child may be at risk or even just the that parents are in more need of some support.
Example 18 year old with no qualifications, unemployed unstable housing with a much older partner who has a history of domestic abuse (linking this to his parenting of his previous children) means she is more likely to need support.
It could prevent her being abused or her baby in future. (Or they may be absolutely fine) but the only thing professionals can do is be aware and offer extra support when they think it’s required.
They aren’t there to judge you.
Just there to screen out if you need support.
Just get over yourself and accept that them ruling out these questions for everyone will save lives.

The only question I had was whether partner has any other children which I guessed was to ascertain whether he had previous children on SS radar or whatever. Never been asked the other ones and I have 5 DC, two different trusts during the pregnancies too.

@bumpabroad

You’re bringing an entire new human into the world, it’s not just about you like your previous appointments have been. If you don’t want to answer the questions then say so, but I don’t understand how you don’t see that they’re relevant from practical and safeguarding points of view.

Totally agree with this, but I don’t think OP will get it. A lot of the questions are for statistics. I’m sure the midwife is not being ‘nosy’ about the hundreds of women she meets.

It’s not about being nosy, it’s about identifying risks and support needs. There’s nothing sinister about this.

You’re right, a lot of women won’t answer truthfully about their relationship with their partner next to him. In our area DH was asked to wait outside for one appointment for this reason. It’s not ideal but they’re doing what they can to flag families who might need help.

Basically- chill out.

I couldn’t care less to most of the questions but I do understand that they are important for highlighting extra care paths for many women.

Some women who can read or have difficulty reading (around the education question) won’t blurt that out. The questions are there to decide if people need extra support or help.

There are women who are homeless / abusive relationships etc who will need help. I think it’s a bit naive to think everyone is like you.

[quote USaYwHatNow]@Frenchie8690 ahhh of course! Because women who can afford to go private don't need to be screened for domestic abuse and violence! And if you're consanguinous then the consultant can wave a magic wand and make that go away 🤦🏻‍♀️ silly me![/quote]
Nope not what I said at all

But being consultant led means you avoid a lot of the patronising, judgey stuff I'm afraid. I believe all women should be treated the way I was regardless of whether it is on the NHS or private. When I did come into contact with midwives I was shocked by how little medical advice they could give, they were reluctant to offer a medical view on anything and if they did it usually turned out to be incorrect. I presume that's why they stick to blood tests, breastfeeding and judgey questions predominantly. They don't know if OP needs a c section due to a pre existing medical condition and it's much easier to ask socio economic screening questions, which is already covered on the maternity notes

@JellybeanMama

My husband and I got asked if we were related prior to marriage at both my booking in appointments with different midwife’s…… (we obviously are not)

Absolutely standard question. Surely you must know that many people who marry ARE related (cousins of some sort). This is perfectly legal and particularly common in some populations within the UK.

Unfortunately it can lead to genetic conditions in the baby and it is important to ask as part of the risk assessment.

@babywalker56 do your children have the same father is a standard question, I guess if you are married, a certain age with a small age gap you'd assume they'd be less likely to ask, but no. I'm married and had my first 2 children 18 months apart in my mid 30s and was still asked do they have the same father. It is relevant as the baby won't have the same dna, so if your first was healthy no issues and a good weight it isn't a good indicator that your second will be the same. It's a standard question that they ask everyone when it isnt your first child, I assume you just feel judged because of your circumstances maybe?

@Frenchie8690 the booking appointment takes ages if I remember rightly my first one was 2 hours long those questions only took a short period of that time.

But it's very worrying that going private means women aren't though of as being at risk or their child being at risk.

Abuse knows no bounds. Epstein & Co had plenty money didn't mean any of the girls / young women he got pregnant (bound to be some) weren't in abusive situations.

@JellybeanMama

My husband and I got asked if we were related prior to marriage at both my booking in appointments with different midwife’s…… (we obviously are not)

It happens. The shared genes can result in problems.

Being pregnant isn't really a medical condition. You're bringing another human into the world, and like it or not, the state is going to help you in that enterprise (healthcare, education etc). So they need to know you as a person, and as a couple, to understand where support might be helpful.

The midwife is not just caring for your physical state, she is helping to prepare you emotionally for the biggest event of your life. So it's helpful for her to know a bit about you and your background so she can provide appropriate information for your situation and make sure that the child is going to arrive in a loving, safe and healthy home.

You are either lacking in imagination or very naive if you think these aren't important questions.

And if as you say the man is a shit dad, well if women knowingly go ahead and decide to have a baby with him then their judgement may be questionable too.

Pregnancy is a dangerous time for many women, and early childhood a dangerous time for many children.
If you're fortunate enough to not have any issues then surely you can just answer the questions so they can get on. Some people don't realise the support available to them so it's useful for HCP to know their circumstances.

@chattycaterpillar

Also, it was a phone appointment as I was covid positive etc at the time of the appointment, ( so she changed it to a phone appointment, which was fair enough). But it seemed a bit pointless. She asked if it was supportive relationship etc, and I thought who's going to answer honestly when their partner is next to them anyway lol

That's why they ensure they see the woman alone for part of the appointment. Not sure why you are 'lolling',there's nothing funny about domestic abuse, coercive control homelessness, genetic problems caused by cousins marrying, struggles with literacy or any of the other very real and unfortunately common situations in which pregnant women find themselves.