To say this pissed me off about my booking appointment ?

[chattycaterpillar]

I had a pregnancy booking appointment recently, and was talking to a friend about this yesterday, and she agreed this equally pissed her off about her's too, ( she had hers 12 months ago in the same NHS trust).

The actual medical questions were almost skimmed over, ( I wasn't asked if I had any medication allergies, even though I have a serious allergy to doxycycline). But the amount of nosy, social questions asked to "judge," your suitability to parent was ridiculous.

Examples on the proforma list included:

• How long have you been with your partner ? ( Yes, it is a long-term relationship so wasn't an issue for me, but my friend's child was conceived after a short fling and she didn't want to be answering exactly how long it was).

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ? ( I'm educated to degree level, but interested in the medical relevance of this. Imagine getting asked that at any other medical appointment ...)

• Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ? What does your partner do for work ? ( Why on earth is it medically relevant what my partner does as his job ? )

• Does your partner have any other children ? ( No, but again, not medically relevant...)

• Do you own or rent your property ? ( Why, do you want to take a look at my mortgage deeds....)

Seemed to be a lot more interested in asking a list of nosy, intrusive questions than either a) a serious physical health condition I have that could impact the birth, or b) my medication allergies.

I'm just trying to work out in what other medical scenario this would be appropriate...

It's weird how much of a difference there is from trust to trust. I wasn't asked any of this.

I switched to independent midwives after an initial appointment at my GP surgery with my first DC. Partly because of intrusive, patronising ?s like those and partly because of the expectation that I would attend ante natal appointments during working hours.

I'd have more faith in their questions if they recorded clinical information correctly and took the correct actions arising from it. 27 years ago I explained ad nauseum that I had thyroid problems and it was essential the TSH was monitored and not the T4. After three blood tests measuring the T4, the TSH was eventually checked but only after I insisted the form was signed off by a consultant because despite my previous requests and the fact that I only gave consent for the blood to be taken if the TSH was checked (all ignored), was the TSH actually checked. I was told three times they had asked for TSH but the testers had ignored it despite me providing a letter from my endocrinologist setting out what needed to be done. I was 36 weeks when the correct result came through - the TSH had dropped through the floor indicating I needed increased levothyroxine but it was too late to do anything about it. Baby arrived three days later and TSH was a contributory factor. I found repeatedly that midwives didn't actually listen to what they were being told. I find it extraordinary that they are charged with identifying social risk factors on the basis of my experiences. They did ask what my dh did for a living and when he couldn't come immediately to the hospital assumed he was in the Dock when I said he was in court. They had his occupation in the notes but clearly in an emergency they didn't look at the background information and caused me added stress by shouting at me because I had caused them greater worry because they thought my dh might end up in prison. He was the barrister for the prosecution.

If they seek information they need to refer to notes and assess situations with a little more sensitivity.

I think Yanbu. My experience of midwives and health visitors especially is that they can often behave like bulls in a china shop. Absolutely zero tact or diplomacy. If these questions are coming across as nosy and intrusive, it's because the hcp has done a very bad job of explaining that some of this information is helpful in highlighting women who might need additional support.
I'll be honest though, asking people if they have a bloody dishwasher is ridiculous - it indicates nothing more than a badly designed kitchen and I would really object to that level of clunky questioning.

HCP need to remember that they are meeting women whose hormones are all over the place and making them feel judged and uncomfortable is not likely to result in women seeking help from the midwife/hv should they need it!

@musicviking1

I hate answering those sorts of questions, therefore, I'd probably make most of it up.

Well done you. Claiming to be suffering from domestic violence or homeless or in an abusive relationship when you're not is definitely a great way forward.

I think like everything it's often how these questions are asked and the tone that's used . I've always found my first visit to be a chatty and enjoyable one . I suppose if I was that way inclined I could have taken offence at some of the questions asked but all you need to do is look around the waiting room and see all the woman of all different ages and backgrounds and it's important they are given given the best support possible. One of the mums are the school was telling me three years ago she got linked in with a councillor as she was so nervous of her severe pnd returning and she had someone to talk to during the pregnancy. She hasn't realised this existed until she chatted to the midwife at her initial appointment and told her about the issues she'd previously had.

What is the purpose of asking if you have a dishwasher ? Does anyone know ? Are they implying that failure to own a dishwasher is an indication of deprivation ?

I had my booking in appointment over the phone recently. It's interesting to see what different questions are asked by different NHS trusts. In mine there was a big emphasis on talking about how we can book on parenting classes at 28 weeks and why we shouldn't use 2nd hand mattresses for babies. This was after we spoke about my miscarriages and IVF and how anxious I am about whether my baby will even make it to 12 weeks... I presume each Trust has its own target points for the booking appointment and it's not standardised.

Unfortunately it has to be the woman asked these questions. How would it work otherwise?

'Darling, would you mind going in to see my midwife to tell her all about what a shit and abusive father you are?'

That’s a nosy bastard bunch of questions. I’m guessing they have found correlations between some of those things and issues which arise that could contribute to someone finding it difficult to care for their baby. I was asked if either of my parents had ever had mental health issues. Intrusive, potentially upsetting, not something I wanted to answer because I knew they were trying to work out if I was ‘stable’.

HCP need to remember that they are meeting women whose hormones are all over the place and making them feel judged and uncomfortable is not likely to result in women seeking help from the midwife/hv should they need it!
^^
Can’t say that I disagree.
But maybe the government should try investing a little more so midwives actually have time.
Instead of the conveyer belt that is nhs care.
If people want individualised care that’s all singing all dancing, they need to understand that the funding and resources needs to come from somewhere.

@Somethingsnappy

You've had excellent responses to your concerns here OP. If you've just had your booking appointment, I understand that it's all very early, and perhaps the life of another human being besides yourself might not have sunk in yet. But this is no longer just 'another medical appointment', and so drawing comparisons isn't appropriate.

As for your point that there was more emphasis on these questions than medical issues, do you understand why now? The medical/physical side of childbirth will come much later in your antenatal journey.

Congratulations on your pregnancy! Never be afraid to speak up/question things, if you don't understand something.

Your comment was patronising as you could make it @Somethingsnappy. It also ignores a lot of the totally relevant other comments from posters.

It's not a perfect system, but it goes some ways towards identifying risks. DP went to come in with me for my one and I shooed him away, saying to the midwife I understood the purpose of the appointment. It went much easier after that. DP had no idea and then I explained afterwards why partners are excluded and it made sense to him.

Imagine if they only asked the questions of those they deemed as looking like like they may be at risk. They would be accused of discrimination or worse with their slapdash profiling.

I often think of those questions when I see on the news a horrible story about an infant or toddler harmed by someone known to them and wonder how many of those situations have been prevented due to early intervention at the pregnancy stage for the mother and child.

@toomuchlaundry

Why wouldn’t you want to assist with their safeguarding procedures *@Volhhg*? Do you think schools shouldn’t have safeguarding procedures just in case some parents feel they are intrusive? I assume if you refuse to answer any questions it may be flagged on your notes as a concern

Because I don't want to use the safeguarding services of NHS maternity care. In the same way that some women choose to have unassisted births or choose not to use all of the maternity services offered. I don't know if it would be flagged if you choose not to answer questions - possibly. I don't know fully about how safeguarding in schools works and whether you have to inform the school of your occupation in the same way that you do when registering a birth. I do think we are too reliant on schools to deal with social issues.

@RosesAndHellebores

I'd have more faith in their questions if they recorded clinical information correctly and took the correct actions arising from it. 27 years ago I explained ad nauseum that I had thyroid problems and it was essential the TSH was monitored and not the T4. After three blood tests measuring the T4, the TSH was eventually checked but only after I insisted the form was signed off by a consultant because despite my previous requests and the fact that I only gave consent for the blood to be taken if the TSH was checked (all ignored), was the TSH actually checked. I was told three times they had asked for TSH but the testers had ignored it despite me providing a letter from my endocrinologist setting out what needed to be done. I was 36 weeks when the correct result came through - the TSH had dropped through the floor indicating I needed increased levothyroxine but it was too late to do anything about it. Baby arrived three days later and TSH was a contributory factor. I found repeatedly that midwives didn't actually listen to what they were being told. I find it extraordinary that they are charged with identifying social risk factors on the basis of my experiences. They did ask what my dh did for a living and when he couldn't come immediately to the hospital assumed he was in the Dock when I said he was in court. They had his occupation in the notes but clearly in an emergency they didn't look at the background information and caused me added stress by shouting at me because I had caused them greater worry because they thought my dh might end up in prison. He was the barrister for the prosecution.

If they seek information they need to refer to notes and assess situations with a little more sensitivity.

Yes, however using the term 'partner' to you was completely appropriate and there is no sensible argument otherwise.

@Kittykat93
And how's that got to do anything with my comment? I'm talking more about risk of domestic abuse, living in poverty, etc. Not so much the medical side of it.

What support is there to lift someone out of poverty when they’re pregnant?

@EishetChayil frankly my dear I couldn't give a damn!

@AProperStinging don't put words in my mouth

@annonymousse

Actually asking if your partner has other children is relevant from a safeguarding point of view. If he does you would be asked if he has contact with them and if not why not. Amazing how many don't have contact because of a spiteful ex and then you find out the history of domestic abuse. Not everyone has a straight forward life

Exactly this. My daughters dad fitted into this category. Just gurn up and give the information ffs, it's not like they shout it from the rooftops.

The safeguarding services are there to look after the child @Volhhg too, it's like bits of a jigsaw. So if you don't think HCP or schools should be involved, who do you think should be looking out for the welfare of children?

My dad used to work for the nhs involved in using all your data everything you were asked had nothing to do with judging YOU personally and your suitability as parents or really even safeguarding it was to gather vast amounts of data for mass research , most people fill in this info ( you are under no obligation to do so ) it is used in many ways over decades for example :
do dishwashers reduce the incidence of gastric admissions to hospital
does domestic violence span all educational levels or do middle class white women who have been with their partner for over 5 year still a risk factor and should be flagged up more and not just seen as a poor ethnic issue
Please answer all questions however strange they are used by hundred of academics and inform government spending on programs and policy

I got asked a lot of questions that culminated in the midwife discovering I was adopted.

She then referred me to social services without telling me. Apparently women that have been adopted are significantly more likely to abuse their children. 😐

I have been treated awfully all the way through my pregnancy because of this mark on my file ("social services involvement")

At my 20 week scan, the sonographer behaved as though she were afraid of me and refused to let me know the sex of my baby or let me have any photographs.

I know that the trend on Mumsnet is towards "I don't believe you. You must have done something wrong. Maybe your husband is an abusive rapist and you're a drug addict with an illegal dog" but this is just so far from the truth.

For context, I'm full time employed in science and engineering. I am degree educated, have disposable income, a five bedroom house (😱... I've been old and childless for too long.) have never had so much as a speeding ticket and haven't even tried pot. I'm in a book club. I collect fridge magnets. I have a toilet paper subscription. My favourite food is toast. I still have all my "100% attendance awards from secondary school... I'm just about as ordinary and boring as they come. Seriously. I'm so old and boring I'm bored even typing this.

Also, after numerous miscarriages and several years of fertility issues, this is a much, much wanted baby.

The same week that the safeguarding midwife came to my door unannounced to check my suitability to be a parent, that little boy Arthur was found dead in his "home".

The system is broken.

I’d be more than happy to answer these questions. It’s all about safe guarding.

Yes it probably will paint a picture of someone and yes they may get judged but it’s for the benefit of the child
I cannot work out what your issue is

@CanIJustHaveAWord

When I was having my first two one of the questions was 'is the father a blood relative' 😮

I got asked this too, i roared with laughter. Midwife said its more common than people think in some areas 😮

@WhyIsEverythingSoHard, patronising in what way? On the contrary, I was deliberately drawing from other posters' replies by asking the OP if she understands better now. As far as I can see, she hasn't really acknowledged the informative responses (unless I've missed it). She's had some brilliant responses, and thus I was avoiding repetition.