To say this pissed me off about my booking appointment ?

[chattycaterpillar]

I had a pregnancy booking appointment recently, and was talking to a friend about this yesterday, and she agreed this equally pissed her off about her's too, ( she had hers 12 months ago in the same NHS trust).

The actual medical questions were almost skimmed over, ( I wasn't asked if I had any medication allergies, even though I have a serious allergy to doxycycline). But the amount of nosy, social questions asked to "judge," your suitability to parent was ridiculous.

Examples on the proforma list included:

• How long have you been with your partner ? ( Yes, it is a long-term relationship so wasn't an issue for me, but my friend's child was conceived after a short fling and she didn't want to be answering exactly how long it was).

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ? ( I'm educated to degree level, but interested in the medical relevance of this. Imagine getting asked that at any other medical appointment ...)

• Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ? What does your partner do for work ? ( Why on earth is it medically relevant what my partner does as his job ? )

• Does your partner have any other children ? ( No, but again, not medically relevant...)

• Do you own or rent your property ? ( Why, do you want to take a look at my mortgage deeds....)

Seemed to be a lot more interested in asking a list of nosy, intrusive questions than either a) a serious physical health condition I have that could impact the birth, or b) my medication allergies.

I'm just trying to work out in what other medical scenario this would be appropriate...

@musicviking1

I hate answering those sorts of questions, therefore, I'd probably make most of it up.

Well aren't you the rebel.

And by doing that, you may be flagged up as needing resources you don't need, or having issues you don't have.

Well done.

@FabFitFifties

Life is not just about you anymore OP. I'm sorry to say you sound very arrogant, and dismissive of HCP's. Can you really not imagine why these questions might be asked? I mean thinking about baby's welfare and not just your own?

That is precisely the problem - it should be about the woman and her pregnancy and not an opportunity to use midwives for data gathering. Not one of those questions needs detailed answers to care for the women - the detail is for other purposes.

Honestly you seem fairly ignorant of other people's circumstances. Some people could use more support and these questions are designed to flag them up. You've taken offence and think it's ridiculous, however these questions can provide an opportunity for intervention for some women and their babies.
It's not the same as another type of operation because there's a baby involved.
If you think your illness wasn't taken seriously that's a separate issue and you should speak to the maternity team to get some reassurance.

@C8H10N4O2

Also, almost every woman who smokes when pregnant lies. I’m sorry but they do. If they say they smoke then they then lie about how many they smoke. No one wants to talk about these things but it happens every day.

Then don't go through the fiction of asking the question - just be honest about checking blood carbon monoxide levels and ask them to consent to a test.

In general, it is staggering the degree of control that is considered appropriate for pregnant women - far worse than when I was pregnant and often for barely measurable risk. One would almost think we are in a patriarchal society which has an interest in controlling women in whatever way is possible.

Either pregnant women have autonomy and should be treated as adults or they are not.

Yes agree with this.

What is abundantly clear from this thread is we're damned if we do and damned if we don't!

Ask the questions? , 'how dare you' 'so intrusive'

Don't ask the questions, mother ends up beaten with a dead baby. And we're sacked for not having enough professional curiosity. One less midwife in the numbers and then you all bitch about the lack of staff and so the merry go round continues.

I would 100% love for people to spend a week working in the NHS right now to see that midwives on the whole don't come to work to piss you off, upset you or cause harm. It's absolutely soul destroying

I wish I had been asked any of these questions. Ex DH was violent and it did start in pregnancy. However the midwife took one look at our job titles (medical professionals) and literally said "oh I see your husband is a GP I won't need to be asking you these silly DV questions will I?" I just didn't know how to respond so just laughed along. All throughout the pregnancy and after I hoped someone would genuinely ask me so I could have got help but no one did. And it put me off trying to mention to anyone as I thought no one would believe me or help me as he was a "GP" It was awful and still gets to me now.

I can’t really understand your outrage.
They can’t tweak the questions depending upon your appearance and make assumptions. I’m sure they need to know if the baby’s dad is 15, or if you have learning difficulties, or if you are living in deprivation etc as these things would impact the baby to some degree and the services you require. There are thousands in these circumstances. Why does it offend you so much? Would you prefer they look you up and down and make an assumption of these things based on how you look?

It's for demographic info collecting, I'm wouldn't be surprised to be asked these sorts of questions under the circumstances.

Some of these questions were asked by my neurologist.

I think midwives should ask these questions, pretending that medical and environmental factors are separate is partly why people fail to be supported.

Many of the questions were asked during my time in hospital and on a personal level. The booking appointment questions were at least obviously done as a tick box exercise and so less intrusive. We were asked in a friendly way how we met/what we do for a living by a few midwives in hospital and I think lots of women enjoy this sort of attention in hospital but I found it quite excruciating. The consultants were much more relaxing to be around than the midwives. But it made me feel uncomfortable and they didn't appear to be safeguarding or gathering data, if they did they could have checked my notes. I would politely decline this information at the booking appointment and throughout the pregnancy if you don't like it. You don't have to participate in this aspect of maternity care if you don't want to. It's not your job in pregnancy to help the state collect data or assist with their safeguarding process.

Just because you're living In an ideal situation without any major issues, doesn't mean everyone is. These questions can help build a picture of whether the mother or baby may need extra support/be unsafe. Yes this should definitely include questions about the partner, it's totally relevant assuming the partner will be coming into contact with the baby. Stop finding reasons to be outraged about these things, you'll be much happier. :)

I am laughing a bit about the so called 'extra support' supposedly offered. I was never offered any 'extra support' for my pre eclampsia symptoms which were discarded by my MW

@yummytummy

I wish I had been asked any of these questions. Ex DH was violent and it did start in pregnancy. However the midwife took one look at our job titles (medical professionals) and literally said "oh I see your husband is a GP I won't need to be asking you these silly DV questions will I?" I just didn't know how to respond so just laughed along. All throughout the pregnancy and after I hoped someone would genuinely ask me so I could have got help but no one did. And it put me off trying to mention to anyone as I thought no one would believe me or help me as he was a "GP" It was awful and still gets to me now.

Yes absolutely spot on. It really annoys me because I know so many people who fit into these flagged demographics who are actually much better parents than us in many many ways

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@melj1213 precisely why I always introduced myself as Mrs.[/quote]
I notice you didn't actually answer answer question I posed.

How is a generic HCP supposed to talk about the other person in a relationship when marital status has not been established prior, since not every person will introduce themselves with a title?

I never introduced myself as Ms, I introduce myself as "Hi, I'm Melj1213" without any title and sometimes without even my surname ... so how are they supposed to know how I address the other person in my relationship? Could be a boyfriend, fiancé, husband, civil partner, partner, significant other ... the only ones that are not making any assumption of marriage are SO and partner.

I find that people who object to this stuff are really quite ignorant about the reality of life outside their well functioning bubble.

The idea that just because a person wears nice, clean clothes and has manners, means that there could not possibly have any instability or danger in their life. That the only people in need of help to provide for their baby look like Vicky Pollard.

You're very naive, OP.

They check the age of your partner because older sperm = higher risk of abnormalities

Why wouldn’t you want to assist with their safeguarding procedures @Volhhg? Do you think schools shouldn’t have safeguarding procedures just in case some parents feel they are intrusive?
I assume if you refuse to answer any questions it may be flagged on your notes as a concern

I find that people who object to this stuff are really quite ignorant about the reality of life outside their well functioning bubble

Oh in my case its because I understand too well about data privacy, consent, what happens to the data, the type of systems it is passed through, where a lot of it ends up and how its damned near impossible to truly anonymise medical data.

Risk factors for the woman as an individual can be assessed with much less specific questions by a midwife given the time to communicate with and build a relationship with her patient.

If you want to use the opportunity to waste valuable appointment time on data gathering then ask people to volunteer that information for demographic use.

Surely you can see why they ask these questions? I'm sure that others have explained but I just wanted to make the point that they do often ask these types of questions in other medical scenarios. I have a chronic health condition and have certainly been asked to about my family, job etc. I presumed it was to see if I needed any extra support. You don't have to answer if you don't want to.

They don’t really need to know about conditions that might mean you need a c section etc at a booking appt FGS! You’ve not even had a single scan yet they don’t even know if the pregnancy is viable, or whether you’re having triplets or anything! So so much can change your existing condition might not even be relevant at that stage until much later. I am 30 weeks and have an existing condition too which they did sort of vaguely acknowledge at booking but didn’t really mention til after 20 week scan, and have not even discussed actual birth plans yet, I’m doing my own research but this is more about safeguarding and believe me what might seem ridiculous to you is relevant to others. Your child might have been conceived after an assault and you might want support with that. You might be married to your first cousin and want genetic testing. Your partner might be 65 and have a health condition which makes you a carer or he might be 79 and in great health but there are impacts on paternal age and outcomes which are researched into so they need to know for statistics. There’s so much. You might not have liked your midwife as a person or she might have seemed a judgey cow - ask for a new one! In my trust you get booked in by one snd never see them again you change to a community midwife when you reach your 16 week appt.

Midwives provide (or should provide) HOLISTIC care. It’s not just about the medical side of things. The only way to give truly individualised care and ensure the safety and well-being of the family unit is to know all about them.

You’d be amazed at the number of times I’ve been told that a partner/husband doesn’t see their children because of X and when you email social services you unravel a whole other set of circumstances.

Or you ask if someone owns or rents their property and it turns out they live in a HMO with several other migrant families that they don’t really know, or they live in a camper van with no heating or running water.

Or you find out that someone left school at 11, and needs extra help understanding written information.

Partner’s date of birth is relevant for referral processes to social services as well as knowing if they are particularly old/young and if any extra support might be required. It can also be a flag for coercive relationships in a very small minority. 16 year old turns up with a man old enough to be her father? I’d want to check what’s going on there.

Yes, some questions may seem odd, and some are used for analysing trends in demographics etc. but these help to inform the trust where funding should be allocated, where specialist services need to be put into place etc.

@C8H10N4O2

I find that people who object to this stuff are really quite ignorant about the reality of life outside their well functioning bubble

Oh in my case its because I understand too well about data privacy, consent, what happens to the data, the type of systems it is passed through, where a lot of it ends up and how its damned near impossible to truly anonymise medical data.

Risk factors for the woman as an individual can be assessed with much less specific questions by a midwife given the time to communicate with and build a relationship with her patient.

If you want to use the opportunity to waste valuable appointment time on data gathering then ask people to volunteer that information for demographic use.

Surely how the data is stored and used is a separate issue, not that the information itself isn't useful?

I do think some of the questions are demographic-ish and should be optional but things like the structure of the family and the ability of the parent to be able to meet the needs of the child do need to be addressed.

@TheyCallMeJune

I am laughing a bit about the so called 'extra support' supposedly offered. I was never offered any 'extra support' for my pre eclampsia symptoms which were discarded by my MW

And how's that got to do anything with my comment? I'm talking more about risk of domestic abuse, living in poverty, etc. Not so much the medical side of it.

You've had excellent responses to your concerns here OP. If you've just had your booking appointment, I understand that it's all very early, and perhaps the life of another human being besides yourself might not have sunk in yet. But this is no longer just 'another medical appointment', and so drawing comparisons isn't appropriate.

As for your point that there was more emphasis on these questions than medical issues, do you understand why now? The medical/physical side of childbirth will come much later in your antenatal journey.

Congratulations on your pregnancy! Never be afraid to speak up/question things, if you don't understand something.