To say this pissed me off about my booking appointment ?

[chattycaterpillar]

I had a pregnancy booking appointment recently, and was talking to a friend about this yesterday, and she agreed this equally pissed her off about her's too, ( she had hers 12 months ago in the same NHS trust).

The actual medical questions were almost skimmed over, ( I wasn't asked if I had any medication allergies, even though I have a serious allergy to doxycycline). But the amount of nosy, social questions asked to "judge," your suitability to parent was ridiculous.

Examples on the proforma list included:

• How long have you been with your partner ? ( Yes, it is a long-term relationship so wasn't an issue for me, but my friend's child was conceived after a short fling and she didn't want to be answering exactly how long it was).

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ? ( I'm educated to degree level, but interested in the medical relevance of this. Imagine getting asked that at any other medical appointment ...)

• Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ? What does your partner do for work ? ( Why on earth is it medically relevant what my partner does as his job ? )

• Does your partner have any other children ? ( No, but again, not medically relevant...)

• Do you own or rent your property ? ( Why, do you want to take a look at my mortgage deeds....)

Seemed to be a lot more interested in asking a list of nosy, intrusive questions than either a) a serious physical health condition I have that could impact the birth, or b) my medication allergies.

I'm just trying to work out in what other medical scenario this would be appropriate...

@RosesAndHellebores

Oh and even 26 years ago Ingot a very snotty look from the midwife at the home visit who after asking if my baby had the same father as ds1, when in response to her "how long have you been with your partner" got the answer that I didn't have a partner I had a husband. She was beyond "right on" and had no cognizance that some people get engaged, married, love each other and make sure they are financially secure before starting a family.

This response is staggering, dripping with disdain and smugness. Some people supposedly do things all the 'right' way and still fall into unfortunate circumstances due to job loss, ill health or other reasons. Being married and planning does make you a superior parent or your baby superior. Families can be perfectly secure and thriving in all sorts of shapes and sizes. It is also best not to assume, especially as many children or born (happily and planned) into same sex partnerships or marriages. AND heterosexual people can also choose to become civil partners now if they wise. Either way it doesn't matter., your attitude stinks though.

@coffeeiwish

Lots of it is anonymised for statistical analysis. It's how the know the fathers age is relevant to pregnancy outcomes. They also use the data to monitor for differences in birth outcomes for women from poorer socioeconomic/educational backgrounds. It's not all about you. The NHS use lots of data to improve public health.

But data gathering for public health research is not data gathering for the woman's benefit. Its a basic principle of data privacy that you collect the minimum data needed to serve the purpose (in this case of care for the woman). The level of specificity and detail here is for a different purpose - demographic research.

There is nothing wrong with giving women an optional set of additional questions to help with demographic research - there is a long history of people being willing to do this.

What isn't right is making the extraction of a large amount of personal information the price of accessing care. It also consumes midwife time as survey collectors instead of allowing them to focus on the woman in front of them.

As for the idea that health care professionals don't judge patients - I can only assume you have no medics in your family or friends. Of course they judge patients - every human judges those around them.

@OnceuponaRainbow18

Mine asked me if I smoked, I said no. Then they asked me to do a carbon monoxide test!

Imagine if you’d come back with a sky high reading. Gone home. Checked your boiler. Realised it was spewing out carbon monoxide and could have killed you.

I promise this happens. I promise.

Not one single thing in a midwife appt is superfluous.

Also, almost every woman who smokes when pregnant lies. I’m sorry but they do. If they say they smoke then they then lie about how many they smoke. No one wants to talk about these things but it happens every day.

Smoking is the most modifiable cause of stillbirth. If we know you smoke we can put you on a pathway for support if you want to quit and also extra scans whether you quit or not. It’s to try to reduce stillbirth.

I think that when you become pregnant, there is this massive change in how you relate to the state which I found surprising at the time (but obviously got used to it!).
The thing is, it's not just you who is interested in your baby - the state will be interested in your baby too. They will want to know who is looking after your baby and if they're doing a good job of it, and then later they'll want to know if your child is getting an education, etc. They do (in my opinion) have a right to reach into your family and find out these things, because your child is a whole other separate person who the state have a duty towards.
It all seems to start in pregnancy. Pregnancy is not just a kind of medical thing that's happened to you - it's you and (soon) someone else, and they are looking after that someone else as well as you, and at the moment at least they have to do it through you.
I too felt like I lost some of my privacy when I got pregnant and it felt a bit weird. But to be honest the whole 'a new person exists - and they are growing inside me!' thing is weird when you think about it.

Also, almost every woman who smokes when pregnant lies. I’m sorry but they do. If they say they smoke then they then lie about how many they smoke. No one wants to talk about these things but it happens every day.

Then don't go through the fiction of asking the question - just be honest about checking blood carbon monoxide levels and ask them to consent to a test.

In general, it is staggering the degree of control that is considered appropriate for pregnant women - far worse than when I was pregnant and often for barely measurable risk. One would almost think we are in a patriarchal society which has an interest in controlling women in whatever way is possible.

Either pregnant women have autonomy and should be treated as adults or they are not.

@AgathaMystery

I get that, but I mentioned it to some other friends who didn’t have to do a test. So it made me feel like I wasn’t believed but never mind!

I hate answering those sorts of questions, therefore, I'd probably make most of it up.

@Volhhg

Unless you think it will help you personally I really don't think telling a midwife what you do for a living is essential for your unborn helpless human being.

Certain jobs can impact on the health of the baby. Certain jobs cannot be done if pregnant

@C8H10N4O2

Also, almost every woman who smokes when pregnant lies. I’m sorry but they do. If they say they smoke then they then lie about how many they smoke. No one wants to talk about these things but it happens every day.

Then don't go through the fiction of asking the question - just be honest about checking blood carbon monoxide levels and ask them to consent to a test.

In general, it is staggering the degree of control that is considered appropriate for pregnant women - far worse than when I was pregnant and often for barely measurable risk. One would almost think we are in a patriarchal society which has an interest in controlling women in whatever way is possible.

Either pregnant women have autonomy and should be treated as adults or they are not.

Totally agree, couldn't have written it any better.

@melj1213 precisely why I always introduced myself as Mrs.

@badger2005 the state only has the right of intervention with a court order. In 1995 I asked my HV the purpose of her role and she told me it was to make sure I spoke to my baby enough for him to develop speech and that she was responsible for his immunisations. The insidiousness of the subordination of the mother is chilling.

was just a bit irritated that there were so many questions designed to judge or categorize me

They are not
It's your perception of it that's making you feel like this here
Hope your pregnancy goes well op

@RosesAndHellebores

Oh and even 26 years ago Ingot a very snotty look from the midwife at the home visit who after asking if my baby had the same father as ds1, when in response to her "how long have you been with your partner" got the answer that I didn't have a partner I had a husband. She was beyond "right on" and had no cognizance that some people get engaged, married, love each other and make sure they are financially secure before starting a family.

This story makes you sound worse every time you post it. I say this as someone who's been on the wrong end of some awful midwives in my time.

Also re your comment about the likelihood of C-section due to your conditions, this isn't something that is usually discussed at a booking appointment. You don't know how your pregnancy will go and this discussion will take place later on. Tell the midwife at your next appointment what your issues are in detail and follow up again after the 20 week scan. Then at the birth choices discussion which is usually past 35 weeks. But of course every pregnancy is different and you don't know what complications you may have (hopefully none) and when the discussion about your delivery will be appropriate. If a potential CS concerns you then ask to be referred to a birth choices midwife in due course, if it affects your MH then perhaps perinatal MH services too. I say this as someone who has gone through a planned section due to complications.

Also agree 100% with posters who suffered baby loss - some of the questions are incredibly insensitive and ideally our history should be visible on our record without having to go over it repeatedly at booking appointments. This is an evident flaw in the system and I used to get upset and dread booking appointments every time before DS arrived (I'm a recurrent miscarrier). So to you, I get it. And from attending many, many health appointments throughout my pregnancies I can tell you OP, you need to stop assuming every woman is in the same shoes as you, I saw some who clearly needed a helping hand from the professionals throughut the pregnancy because of their circumstances. Some who really didn't understand the basics of what was going on which to me were obvious - not to them. Some very unprepared women too. People are different and have different struggles, no one goes over all of the responses for a jolly and a bit of gossip. I wish there were more MWs to provide better support if anything, they really don't do their job as well as they should as it stands and definitely don't have the time to ask you unnecessary questions for whatever sinister reasons you have in your head.

Asking if the father has other children might also flag up medical issues that he has passed on.

@starfishmummy

Asking if the father has other children might also flag up medical issues that he has passed on.

But they don't know anything about the children? They asked me their first names and birthdays but don't know their surname, address etc.

I assume it's safeguarding so if something happens with our baby and social services step in they are aware there may be other children present? But they definitely didn't take enough details to be able to link me to the specific children themselves.

Don't answer anything you're not comfortable with.

@MajesticallyAwkward

I appreciate some can feel intrusive, but there is a reason for asking and it's not to judge. a midwife has an opportunity to identify and take action on a risk to the pregnant woman and/or the unborn baby. It's not to judge how educated you are.

How long have you been with your partner ?
Checking if you are in a relationship, have a support at home etc

What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ?
I don't think I was asked this, but I guess it's a clumsy way of checking how much support you might need?

Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ?
Do you need help accessing benefits and grants etc, what do you do and is there any risks you'd need support or advice on.

Does your partner have any other children ?
Do any existing children have any genetic conditions that you would need tests for. Does the partner see his dc, if not why (eg history of dv) or are there any other risks to be aware of around existing dc.

Do you own or rent your property ?
Do you have a stable home? pretty important when you're having a baby, there's things they could to support if you'd said 'I rent and being evicted next week'

This really. They're not asking for fun. I've had three babies in the last six years and don't really remember being asked all this, it obviously didn't even register as an issue for me. Also to the PP who is obsessed by the fact that she's married, I'm married but kept my own name and most HCPs (and I saw a lot in my last pregnancy) assumed we weren't married. I never bothered correcting them because actually nobody really cares or is impressed by it.

One thing from my booking appointments - my DH came to the first two. He also came to every single midwife appointment with me because we worked together, I didn't drive at the time so we would schedule the appointments for before we headed into work. At no point during either pregnancy was he asked to leave the room for them to ask if he was abusive. I thought this was part of what they check and to be fair, him being at all the appointments might have indicated something controlling to be worried about, but they never did it. The asked about abuse but he was there for the question and answer.

Fgs of course people have incestuous relationships, often consensually, and it's more likely someone will say yes to that than volunteer the information, particularly if they dont know why it could be relevant to babys health and screening.

I think you and your friend are looking for reasons to accuse the world of being judgemental. Perhaps they shouldn't ask you anything and just give you a nice photo of your baby at 12 weeks and whatever drugs you ask for at birth without considering your medical or social background.

Being offended doesnt get you or your baby the best care.

Well done to several posters who have given informative answers.

@AgathaMystery gave an excellent response and the thread could have stopped there.

Life is not just about you anymore OP. I'm sorry to say you sound very arrogant, and dismissive of HCP's. Can you really not imagine why these questions might be asked? I mean thinking about baby's welfare and not just your own?

Neonatal nurse here who has been involved in some horrible safeguarding cases. Not every baby is lucky to be born into a stable family, so all those questions are there to start the process if there will be concerns when the baby is born.

YABU
You should have asked why they were relevant. I would always encourage people to do this.
However, I’m in a related field and I would usually say something like ‘apologies for all these questions as they do seem nosey but are important for helping us assess the needs of our families’ or something like that

@RosesAndHellebores

Oh and even 26 years ago Ingot a very snotty look from the midwife at the home visit who after asking if my baby had the same father as ds1, when in response to her "how long have you been with your partner" got the answer that I didn't have a partner I had a husband. She was beyond "right on" and had no cognizance that some people get engaged, married, love each other and make sure they are financially secure before starting a family.

Why were you offended? Being married doesn’t mean that the relationship is more financially secure or the parents love each other less. Being married doesn’t make you a better parent

My friend's a midwife at a big inner city hospital. She would only ask questions about the relationship while the partner isn't present. They'll usually say they want the partner to wait outside while they examine the mum and then they'll ask those questions then. Some men won't leave the room and that always rings alarm bells. Sometimes they'll fabricate something outside the room (have you got any men who can help me...) so that they can ask the question privately. And yes, some women do say, "I want to leave him but he won't let me" and then it's dealt with immediately.

Of course for most lucky women they are not in that situation, but don't ever forget that some are.

@WulyJmpr

To understand any hazards the baby and mother may be subject to e.g. insecure accommodation or work patterns. Domestic abuse. Such questions are ways of getting you to talk about your situation as a mother to be. Don't get such a bee in your bonnet.

This.. Most people know this before going into the booking app. Its to see what home life the child is coming into, secure home etc its always been like this. Its called safe guarding and you dont need to take it so personal