To say this pissed me off about my booking appointment ?

[chattycaterpillar]

I had a pregnancy booking appointment recently, and was talking to a friend about this yesterday, and she agreed this equally pissed her off about her's too, ( she had hers 12 months ago in the same NHS trust).

The actual medical questions were almost skimmed over, ( I wasn't asked if I had any medication allergies, even though I have a serious allergy to doxycycline). But the amount of nosy, social questions asked to "judge," your suitability to parent was ridiculous.

Examples on the proforma list included:

• How long have you been with your partner ? ( Yes, it is a long-term relationship so wasn't an issue for me, but my friend's child was conceived after a short fling and she didn't want to be answering exactly how long it was).

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ? ( I'm educated to degree level, but interested in the medical relevance of this. Imagine getting asked that at any other medical appointment ...)

• Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ? What does your partner do for work ? ( Why on earth is it medically relevant what my partner does as his job ? )

• Does your partner have any other children ? ( No, but again, not medically relevant...)

• Do you own or rent your property ? ( Why, do you want to take a look at my mortgage deeds....)

Seemed to be a lot more interested in asking a list of nosy, intrusive questions than either a) a serious physical health condition I have that could impact the birth, or b) my medication allergies.

I'm just trying to work out in what other medical scenario this would be appropriate...

@LabelMaker - partner isn't inclusive. There is an underlying assumption one is not married. I have never referred to my husband as my partner. Even ds and his gf who are engaged to be married this year refer to each other as boyfriend and girlfriend rather than partner. After they are married they will be husband and wife.

Every time one deals with the NHS there is an attempt to drag down to the lowest common denominator with an assumption that the patient shoukd be a grateful supplicant.

Someone said above that one in three or one in four women suffer domestic abuse. That means that two in three or three in four don't. Surely you see the need for greater sensitivity.

@KnowingMeKnowingYouAhaaaa how can I feel judged because of my circumstances when I just said they have the same dad?😂

I said for anyone who was in that situation and their kids didn't have the same dad, they'd definitely feel judged

I agree with you OP. The midwife was apologetic about the nature of the questions and warned me beforehand that some of them might seem a bit strange.

I had to give the names and birthdays of my DP's older children, tell them how many units of alcohol I drank a week before pregnancy, whether I had a degree, etc etc.

The only one who is sounding judgmental of women in different situations is you OP.

@LabelMaker

But the amount of nosy, social questions asked to "judge," your suitability to parent was ridiculous. the fact you think they are judges questions suggests you are judging.

Absolutely. Someone who doesn't judge people by their answers to such questions would just interpret them as neutral questions for important practical purposes.

Wait for the HV if she visits pre birth. Mine asked if we would be rehoming our dog. Uh, no. If we were recreational drug users. Can't imagine we would admit it if we were. And how we would cope without a tumble dryer. Same as we have for the last 3 years i would imagine.

However, OP YAN at all U to be annoyed they skimmed past the important medical questions. That's an important one that you should flag up with them.

YABCU and demonstrating a narrow minded middle class attitude to healthcare. Yes you are stebal / well off etc but many others are not and actually need the help that may be available - not all of which they may know about. Why are you pissed off ? because you think you are being 'judged' and you are better than these other people who might need 'help'. Give your head a wobble.

What if you have no job, no place to live, no support - that needs to be flagged up early !! I’d say sorting that stuff out if more important at the early stages of pregnancy rather than whether you might need a c section in 7 or 8 months time

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@LabelMaker - partner isn't inclusive. There is an underlying assumption one is not married. I have never referred to my husband as my partner. Even ds and his gf who are engaged to be married this year refer to each other as boyfriend and girlfriend rather than partner. After they are married they will be husband and wife.

Every time one deals with the NHS there is an attempt to drag down to the lowest common denominator with an assumption that the patient shoukd be a grateful supplicant.

Someone said above that one in three or one in four women suffer domestic abuse. That means that two in three or three in four don't. Surely you see the need for greater sensitivity.[/quote]
Jumped the shark there.

These questions are to safeguard your children. I can’t remember being asked them though, it doesn’t mean they weren’t asked though.

Yabu, your medical conditions are on your notes, what they are trying to assess is your risks specifically for pregnancy which could be social eg abusive partner. They don't know you, everyone has to be treated the same

I appreciate some can feel intrusive, but there is a reason for asking and it's not to judge. a midwife has an opportunity to identify and take action on a risk to the pregnant woman and/or the unborn baby. It's not to judge how educated you are.

How long have you been with your partner ?
Checking if you are in a relationship, have a support at home etc

What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ?
I don't think I was asked this, but I guess it's a clumsy way of checking how much support you might need?

Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ?
Do you need help accessing benefits and grants etc, what do you do and is there any risks you'd need support or advice on.

Does your partner have any other children ?
Do any existing children have any genetic conditions that you would need tests for. Does the partner see his dc, if not why (eg history of dv) or are there any other risks to be aware of around existing dc.

Do you own or rent your property ?
Do you have a stable home? pretty important when you're having a baby, there's things they could to support if you'd said 'I rent and being evicted next week'

I didn't object to any of those questions. Unlike other medical appointments this is to build the background so they can help and support a baby as well as the mother. Woman who maybe do need more support or are in a domestic relationship are not always able to realise that themselves. They can't just take one look at you and make a judgement based on the way you look. It's important as well to gather statistics because that helps inform where support is needed -i.e. women who fit into x demographic are less likely to be able to do xyz so support plans should be targeted on this or that area. It's extremely important. Especially with miscarriage rates are much higher in certain populations than others - unless this stuff is done then things won't change. The appointment is confidential. The midwife is unlikely to then go and chat and say 'oh wow can you believe they don't own a house'

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@LabelMaker - partner isn't inclusive. There is an underlying assumption one is not married. I have never referred to my husband as my partner. Even ds and his gf who are engaged to be married this year refer to each other as boyfriend and girlfriend rather than partner. After they are married they will be husband and wife.

Every time one deals with the NHS there is an attempt to drag down to the lowest common denominator with an assumption that the patient shoukd be a grateful supplicant.

Someone said above that one in three or one in four women suffer domestic abuse. That means that two in three or three in four don't. Surely you see the need for greater sensitivity.[/quote]
So what word are professionals supposed to use when they are asking about the other person in your relationship and haven't established your marital status?

Partner is the most inclusive option as it makes zero assumptions about marital status and covers everyone. It covers people who are married and people who are not without making assumptions.

Not everyone is married before they have children - when I had DD my ExDH and I had been dating for a couple of years, but we didn't get married until after DD was born. If a midwife had assumed that we were married when asking about

Most people will use "partner" in the first instance and then follow the lead of the patient as to the term they use, if they use a specific term, rather than having the patient have to correct them from their assumptions

Eg "What's your partner's DOB?"
"My husbands DOB is 1/1/1990"
"And does your husband have other children?"
"No, this is the first child for my husband and I"

Vs
What's your husband's DOB?"
"My boyfriend's DOB is 1/1/1990"
"And does your husband have other children?"
"No, this is the first child for my boyfriend and I"

The first is inclusive, the second is assumptive.

I'm sure this has been said but partners age can affect downs syndrome risk I believe. Asking if he already has children may give an insight into genetic /hereditary conditions.

I don't remember any of these questions but it has been 16 years since my last! They did ask if I had a partner and what support I had - basically for the well-being of the baby I suppose. There were no health visitors due to lack of staffing so maybe trying to cover what a health visitor would have actually seen post birth.
But agree some of those questions seem pretty irrelevant- I wonder if one could refuse to answer?
Was it ever really like Call the Midwife?

As an HCP I just wanted to say home ownership / rental is relevant for if adaptations need to be made - not all landlords allow this, or social housing may fund it - lots of reasons - obviously this isn’t as relevant for pregnancy as it is for elder care (also relevant for care package funding) , but that is one of the standard questions you ask during assessment.

@Lottle

I'm sure this has been said but partners age can affect downs syndrome risk I believe. Asking if he already has children may give an insight into genetic /hereditary conditions.

There has been research surrounding the fathers age and likelihood of dwarfism and also psychiatric issues, actually it looks like the fathers age has lots of affects:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternal_age_effect

But agree some of those questions seem pretty irrelevant- I wonder if one could refuse to answer?

You can absolutely refuse to answer.

First question at ours was whether we were blood related. We were wtf but the area we lived in at time very high percentage of couples are cousin marriage often going back generations so it made sense.
I was involved in child protection work years ago - literacy was relevant. A newborn baby had been removed as mum was alone with several toddlers and newborn and couldn’t safely make up bottle milk (the dad had been arrested so couldn’t assist)

Mine asked me if I smoked, I said no. Then they asked me to do a carbon monoxide test!

@chattycaterpillar

Also, it was a phone appointment as I was covid positive etc at the time of the appointment, ( so she changed it to a phone appointment, which was fair enough). But it seemed a bit pointless. She asked if it was supportive relationship etc, and I thought who's going to answer honestly when their partner is next to them anyway lol

I don’t know why you are lol-ing.

You are correct. Women are less likely to say they are in a bad situation via a phone consultation. Covid has led to many more women dying from domestic abuse than pre-covid.

Not sure why you find it so hilarious. Midwives also know this. It concerns them.