To say this pissed me off about my booking appointment ?

[chattycaterpillar]

I had a pregnancy booking appointment recently, and was talking to a friend about this yesterday, and she agreed this equally pissed her off about her's too, ( she had hers 12 months ago in the same NHS trust).

The actual medical questions were almost skimmed over, ( I wasn't asked if I had any medication allergies, even though I have a serious allergy to doxycycline). But the amount of nosy, social questions asked to "judge," your suitability to parent was ridiculous.

Examples on the proforma list included:

• How long have you been with your partner ? ( Yes, it is a long-term relationship so wasn't an issue for me, but my friend's child was conceived after a short fling and she didn't want to be answering exactly how long it was).

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ? ( I'm educated to degree level, but interested in the medical relevance of this. Imagine getting asked that at any other medical appointment ...)

• Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ? What does your partner do for work ? ( Why on earth is it medically relevant what my partner does as his job ? )

• Does your partner have any other children ? ( No, but again, not medically relevant...)

• Do you own or rent your property ? ( Why, do you want to take a look at my mortgage deeds....)

Seemed to be a lot more interested in asking a list of nosy, intrusive questions than either a) a serious physical health condition I have that could impact the birth, or b) my medication allergies.

I'm just trying to work out in what other medical scenario this would be appropriate...

But the amount of nosy, social questions asked to "judge," your suitability to parent was ridiculous. the fact you think they are judges questions suggests you are judging.

@chattycaterpillar

Oh and they also wanted to know my partner's date of birth. Why ?! I've been for surgery before under anesthetic and they've never asked that. My partner and I are the same age, (29), but my friend sad it's for them to have a nosy at unsuitable age gaps.....but if i'd have said my partner was 60, what would they actually be able to do ?!

YABU - the questions are all asked for a reason. They're not "judging your ability to be a parent".

Why would they ask your Partner's date of birth at an anaesthetist appointment when it's nothing to do with your Partner? The baby is his so it's genetically affected by your Partner so of course he's relevant. They ask date of birth as age can be a risk factor for certain things. Just as they ask if they smoke etc as this can also be a risk factor.

I think it's completely unprofessional for a HCP to be quizzing an expectant mother about why her partner doesn't see his other kids

That's also again, not what they're doing - it's relevant if he has other kids for any genetic conditions they may have, what other kids will be living with you and around yours etc, just as when you have more than one they ask about your other kids.

They also ask if you're related to your Partner as again, health conditions can be caused by this.

How long you have been with your Partner is relevant as if it's a ONS, a short fling etc then chances are you won't know much about their medical history when it comes to testing baby for things, also things like if your blood comes back rhesus negative, they won't be able to test the dad to see if he's positive to find out if baby is.
STI's can also affect baby so they need to know if there's a chance of any of those.

You're trying hard to be offended by them asking questions which they need to for the health of your baby. If a question bothers you, ask them why they've asked it - they will tell you why as there is a reason for all their questions

@RosesAndHellebores

Oh and even 26 years ago Ingot a very snotty look from the midwife at the home visit who after asking if my baby had the same father as ds1, when in response to her "how long have you been with your partner" got the answer that I didn't have a partner I had a husband. She was beyond "right on" and had no cognizance that some people get engaged, married, love each other and make sure they are financially secure before starting a family.

No she was probably just surprised you'd got arsey at being asked about your partner. A generic term she doesn't give a shit if you call your partner a husband or not.

Yes I’m sure it’s about safeguarding, but it sounds ridiculously intrusive. My response had I got any of these questions would have been “none of your business” and that’s the polite version.
It should be made clear that completion is voluntary.
The Q re “degree level” qualification is completely irrelevant.

@JellybeanMama

My husband and I got asked if we were related prior to marriage at both my booking in appointments with different midwife’s…… (we obviously are not)

It isn't obvious though, it's more common than you would think. There's a lot of health problems that can come from the Parent's being related so it is necessary to ask.

Yes people may lie about it but they're asking for the health of their child so there's no benefit to lying

The Q re “degree level” qualification is completely irrelevant. it obviously isn't or they wouldn't be asking it. It's probably for statistically measuring against the outcome of the pregnancy. So if someone loses a baby they aren't then asked questions about their education at a difficult time. Also if you haven't completed schooling you might need more assistance with leaflets and stuff.

Lots of it is anonymised for statistical analysis. It's how the know the fathers age is relevant to pregnancy outcomes. They also use the data to monitor for differences in birth outcomes for women from poorer socioeconomic/educational backgrounds. It's not all about you. The NHS use lots of data to improve public health.

@chattycaterpillar I've worked in the area with the highest rate of DV in the country. A lot of research was done into when women disclose this, and it was discovered that they need to be asked 7-8 times on average. So there is now guidance from the trust that every professional asks every client/patient they see some variety of these questions (obviously booking apt is taking a full history so often it would't be that detailed but something like 'do you feel safe at home, are you suffering any domestic abuse?'). Often people do want to disclose but they fear the repercussions and doubt the help is genuine. If professionals keep chipping away, if they know that someone will ask them they can then build up to being able to say yes, I am, I need help. And also being asked is a 'get out' clause rather than them having to take the first step.

So it's great you feel supported, and looked after, and prepared - but 1 in 4 women (1 in 3 in some areas) are not, and it's the midwife's job to help identify who those women are to support them too.

As for if you said it was from a ONS or fling etc - yes, there are extra services available for single parents, there are charities that can support and different financial benefits/grants to apply for. So it is relevant. Some cultures marry first cousins routinely, so they may also answer about being related too. Age of partner is relevant both for practical support offered and also some genetic conditions. Level of maternal education correlates highly with some outcomes of child development, and as mentioned upthread is a way of checking the mother is confident to read and comprehend the literature that is provided or to find out if they would need that given to them in a different way (e.g. a support worker who may come to help read things and go through it all more carefully).

I get that the questions may feel intrusive, but they are not asking for shits and giggles! You can always ask why a question is being asked, and you can also decline to answer if you choose too!

You have hit the nail on the head Labelmaker. Some women do care and the needs and wishes of all need to be considered in accordance with EDI.

So it's great you feel supported, and looked after, and prepared - but 1 in 4 women (1 in 3 in some areas) that is shockingly high. Almost better they assume DV is present until confirmed otherwise.

@NellieEllie

Yes I’m sure it’s about safeguarding, but it sounds ridiculously intrusive. My response had I got any of these questions would have been “none of your business” and that’s the polite version. It should be made clear that completion is voluntary. The Q re “degree level” qualification is completely irrelevant.

Would you have it then that midwives ask no questions about the circumstances into which a baby will be born?

These people are far too busy to be asking questions just to be nosey. They are questions designed in the interests of the wellbeing off expectant mother and baby. If you have an objection to them, you don't have to answer, so no harm done. But if they help 1% of the people who take part, surely it's worth it?

@RosesAndHellebores

You have hit the nail on the head Labelmaker. Some women do care and the needs and wishes of all need to be considered in accordance with EDI.

But partner is the more inclusive term

The Q re “degree level” qualification is completely irrelevant.

Intrusive but not irrelevant. It allows the State to ascertain what socio-economic status new babies fall into and plan future funding accordingly. From knowing the socio-economic state of the parents, the State can gauge if the child might need the pupil premium later on, for instance, or what areas are deprived and need greater funding.
In theory, anyway.

It’s a bit like posters who worried about vulnerable children during lockdown but then got offended with school contacting them and wanting to talk to their DC.

Safeguarding is fine unless it means they have to answer some questions!

Surely you can see its not all about you, you'll be bringing a baby into the world and they need to be looking at the bigger picture including practical and safety issues.

@Wnkingawalrus

Not sure but I think a lot of it is to do with trying to identify women at risk, particularly risk of domestic violence. But they’re not going to ask outright because most women wouldn’t admit to it.

Obviously there are many jobs that can be impacted by pregnancy. That’s exactly why employers should be doing a risk assessment for pregnant employees.

My midwife once said (after the questionnaire) that they ask things in a round about way rather than straight out because not many people will admit that their partner abused them straight out but they may admit they don't feel supported or carry the bulk of the domestic life or they have just left an abusive partner and sofa surfing etc.

Don't assume because it's not entirely relevant to you, it's not important. I'd rather have the HV / MW combing through my personal details than risk missing something that could result in a vulnerable baby / mother not getting the support they need.

In an ideal world, they'd know us in more detail, from community support to doctor records etc, but with the way these things are now structured - a lot of midwives only see you at the hospital hub rather than in the community - this is probably the best compromise they can come up with

@BattenbergdowntheHatches

YANBU

It's nuts. I had a conversation like this:

"Have you ever used recreational drugs?"

"Is the answer confidential to us or will it go on my medical records?"

"It's going on your record".

"Then no, I haven't"

Absolutely pointless data-gathering with zero statistical significance and unnecessarily intrusive.

Surely you can see the relevance of asking about drug use?

Also, in the above example they can record their suspicions that you have due to your answer and refer you for closer monitoring regardless of your actual answer.

I heard, about thirty years ago so this may be well out of date, it adds up to some score to assess the babies welfare environment. So if you are single mum child is more vulnerable etc etc. And apparently it stays with child for life. So if you win the lottery as a single mum your child will still be on the at more risk than one who is with married parents on the breadline. Love to know how true it it and if it’s still the same, heard it from a very reputable source at the time who was mega pissed off with her score as her husband at the time was an unemployed uni lecturer and she was a professional. As I say that was a long time ago and I don’t know how true it is but when I moved as a single mother the health visitor in the new area wanted to know all those questions and when I asked why she was verrrrry cagey about why she wanted to know. Also she was astonished and I mean verbally astonished to find out the house was mine, the mortgage was mine, the business I worked for was mine.

These are demographic questions so public health research purposes.

It's going nothing to do with judging you.

The questions can be annoying but it’s not just a medical appointment, it’s an opportunity to discover whether you are likely to need extra support throughout pregnancy and beyond.

HV are trying to stop vulnerable mothers from slipping through the net (I lost count of how many times I had to confirm that DH wasn’t abusive) and collect data that helps future mums and babies thrive.

Just because you are fine doesn’t mean every pregnant woman is. Surely answering a few annoying questions is worth it if it means other women’s needs get picked up?

Oh and marriage between cousins is common in some communities and can be medically relevant- they need to ask this.

Congratulations on your pregnancy, try not to let the intrusive questions get you down .

You must be really tired after working so hard to be offended at the questions. As others have said, open your eyes and see the bigger picture

So are they calculating risk or are they for public health questions? I’ve never taken part in research or statistic collection before without informed consent. Consent is such a basic step for approval with the ethics committee in research, it’s strange if the NHS do it by stealth.

This is all big picture stuff, OP. Don't take it personally, but consider that these questions have been created for women whose lives are not as straightforward as yours or mine is.