Dogs… To think it doesn’t matter whether it’s a legal breed or not?!

[MsWalterMitty]

Just read about the recent child death in St Helen’s. It’s so awful!

The breed of dog has been released and it turns out it’s not an illegal breed. It’s called an American Bully XL, never heard of it so I googled it, even though I had an idea what it might look like due to its name.

Surely, whether it’s legal or not, this dog seems like a really stupid choice for a family!

In the summer holiday our dog was attacked by another dog. Ours was on the lead. The other dog just appeared out of nowhere and bit ours. We couldn't get it off for absolutely ages. It's owner tried to drag it off. She couldn't. My dh had to kick it in the face.

The woman had had the dog got two weeks. She said she had 'rescued' it.

Whilst we were dealing with our dog, trying to,stop the bleeding etc...this woman's five year old boy was hugging and draping himself all over the dog. I was gobsmacked. She also had a toddler. She gave us all of her details.

So, we tried to report her to the police. They said it was nothing to do with them as the dog hadn't bitten a human.

We tried to report them to the dog warden. We left many messages for them, they never contacted us.

I looked her up on Facebook and stalked her profile until I found a photo of the five year old in his uniform. I rang the school and asked to speak to a safeguard lead. They could not have cared less.

So - who knows where that dog is now. Nobody in authority that's for sure.

It only matters from a legal perspective in terms of any charges pressed - if it was an illegal breed, that's an extra charge that could be levelled against the owners. They can still be charged with owning a dog which is dangerously out of control, regardless of breed.

For all other purposes, it doesn't matter a jot. Breed specific legislation is archaic and ineffective, penalises owners of dogs which are perfectly nice but happen to fit a certain set of measurements, and fails to do anything target or prevent harm from dogs which are actually dangerous (as in this case).

Pumperthepumper

Prescottdanni123
This whole story just demonstrates that these so called adults were never fit to own a dog in the first place. In an ideal world, they wouldn't have been entrusted with a family of sea monkeys, let alone a dog.

Who buys a dog with unknown history, especially a breed like that, and brings it into the house with a toddler? Did they not stop to wonder why it's previous owners were trying to sell it? And they just assumed that it would be OK with children? It beggars belief.

Tragically, it is that poor little girl that has paid the ultimate price.
They have too though. I’m certain they didn’t want their daughter to die like that. It’s a horrible story all round, they deserve sympathy too.

They don’t deserve any sympathy… they’ve killed their child due to their own stupidity and ego!

There’s a reason why pet rescue centres rarely adopt to families with small children

People who defend these types of dogs always say that their dog is the softest, gentlest, etc. Or they blame the owners for training them to be fighting dogs. Or they say that smaller breeds are snappier, more aggressive, and more likely to bite.

None of that changes the facts. Certain breeds are vastly more likely to inflict serious harm, and so many times, the family of the victim are shocked, because the dog evidently had never shown signs of aggression in the past. A small, yappy breed might nip, but they're extremely unlikely to kill. It's not worth the risk, imo, to own a breed with a history of killing people. There are so many other breeds to choose from! Why risk it?

I agree OP but your wasting you're time, Children's lives are still very cheap in this country sadly, and there's so many dog apologists out there you only have to look on these threads and on the comments when these stories are posted on facebook. I've seen some terrible posts on similar threads and on social media, a lot even blaming the children a 'well they probably antagonised it' line is used a lot - oh so that's OK then??? These people shout loudest and will try and shut down any discussion because they like to think their dogs and dog owners have more rights than the safety of children coupled with the fact this government don't really care about children, nothing will ever be done.

Tbh I would be happy for better control on owners of XL Bullies. I'm saving hard to move mainly because of the increase in XL bullies in the area.

Any dog can bite yes. But those huge breeds with the huge jaws are going to do more damage. There’s no way on earth I’d have one with children

@Nobodycarestakeitelsewhere

It's all to do with fucking idiotic adults leaving babies alone with dogs

Where did you read that the parents had left the baby alone with the dog?

Even if they were in the room… that’s a lot of angry dog to try and remove off a toddler

See above @stormswiftlysweetafton it's the same lines every time, children's lives will always be cheaper than their pet's.

Reading that list of fatal dog attacks (grim reading btw) the same breeds come up over and over again.

My experience with the American bill breeds is the complete opposite. We’ve had two (second one still with us) and they are/we’re just very loving (yes strong) but soppy dogs.

However, we do not leave any of our dogs (terrier included) alone with the child.

Dogs are animals, and any animal could turn.

These breeds do have such a strong bite on them though and the damage that can be caused is truly awful.

People should be vetted before being allowed a dog of any shape or size.

@Mumofsend

I think anyone buying a random dog off the Internet, as an adult aged dog, and mixing it with a 17 month old child is at best naive and at worst dangerous.

However, the parents have paid the most devastating price. They don't need the world to tell them they should never have bought the dog, they will hate themselves for the rest of their lives for doing so.

Don't beat people at the worst point in their lives

Obviously this specific case is still being investigated. But the father of the 12 day old baby who died in 2020 pleaded guilty to being in charge of a dangerously out of control dog causing injury resulting in death. He’s being sentenced this month. I’m sure he is devastated, but I agree with him being prosecuted.
(Obviously I’m aware the specifics of that case, and the recent case may be very different, and as I said, it’s presumably still being investigated)

OnlyFoolsnMothers

Unsurprised456
It’s the upbringing not the breed
I agree no dog regardless of breed should be left around a child but there are dogs that if they bit me I could kick them off me and there’s ones that are just too strong to fend off

Sounds like these dog need more teasing then the typical dog breed though?

It pisses me off they’ve got a Go Fund Me to help with costs after probably spending a stupid amount of money on the dog that did all this.

@catgirl1976

Labs and retrievers? I honestly don’t recall any incidents of them attacking children. Is that actually true?

Yes, my brother and I were both attacked by a golden retriever as children.

None of the breeds should be banned, anyone thinking that is absolutely utterly ignorant.

Not because I think some of these breeds are fluffy love-bugs who wouldn't hurt a fly, but because banning a breed INSTANTLY makes it much more desirable to the very people who should not have any dog at all - and of course, it pushes others to invent similar breeds they can easily cause to be dangerous to fuel their own egos.

the American Bully /XL bully/Toadline Bully etc etc, all came out of the pitbull ban, as dogs that were/are/probably (given the state of our law..) legal to own, that lend their owner some sort of kudos for having a muscle bound fat-headed dog they can parade around the streets and act macho over.

There are others you likely won't see, the Gull-Terr, the Bully Kutta, and then theres the one folk are less likely to recognise as a problem - the Akitas and Belgian Shepherds that are IMO far more dangerous, being owned by people who want to play at protection 'sports'...

The problem is as it has always been - some people should NOT have a dog, they should not be owning dogs, training dogs, selling dogs.

There have been 0 fatal attacks in the UK, that I am aware of - by dogs owned by people who were educated on dog behaviour, by people who were competent with positive reinforcement training, by people who bought dogs from reputable, ethical breeders or from similarly reputable, ethical rescues that assess dogs properly and put some training into them.

@drpet49

Sadly these stories always seem to be the same type of dog and owner

That’s what I’m getting at… and I’m in disbelief at those who are defending the breed!… It does however take a certain person to want one of these types of dogs in the first place

@Singlebutmarried

My experience with the American bill breeds is the complete opposite. We’ve had two (second one still with us) and they are/we’re just very loving (yes strong) but soppy dogs.

However, we do not leave any of our dogs (terrier included) alone with the child.

Dogs are animals, and any animal could turn.

These breeds do have such a strong bite on them though and the damage that can be caused is truly awful.

People should be vetted before being allowed a dog of any shape or size.

You have an American bull dog in the same house as children?

I love dogs, but I struggle to understand the attraction of having a breed that can wreak fatal damage.

@MsWalterMitty

Pumperthepumper

Prescottdanni123
This whole story just demonstrates that these so called adults were never fit to own a dog in the first place. In an ideal world, they wouldn't have been entrusted with a family of sea monkeys, let alone a dog.

Who buys a dog with unknown history, especially a breed like that, and brings it into the house with a toddler? Did they not stop to wonder why it's previous owners were trying to sell it? And they just assumed that it would be OK with children? It beggars belief.

Tragically, it is that poor little girl that has paid the ultimate price.
They have too though. I’m certain they didn’t want their daughter to die like that. It’s a horrible story all round, they deserve sympathy too.

They don’t deserve any sympathy… they’ve killed their child due to their own stupidity and ego!

There’s a reason why pet rescue centres rarely adopt to families with small children

Of course they deserve sympathy, they’ve lost their child. I hope this thread is pulled, it’s absolutely disgusting.

@SevenWaystoLeave

It only matters from a legal perspective in terms of any charges pressed - if it was an illegal breed, that's an extra charge that could be levelled against the owners. They can still be charged with owning a dog which is dangerously out of control, regardless of breed.

For all other purposes, it doesn't matter a jot. Breed specific legislation is archaic and ineffective, penalises owners of dogs which are perfectly nice but happen to fit a certain set of measurements, and fails to do anything target or prevent harm from dogs which are actually dangerous (as in this case).

I hope they’re done for manslaughter

YABU

Yes there’s a handful of dogs that come up ‘time and time again’ as a PP said but that’s because they’re the current ‘cool’ dog.
Some of them are acquired by people who have no idea what they’re doing and shouldn’t have any dog.

It used to be Rottweilers and before that it was German shepherds and these were blamed for everything.
Give it a couple more years and other breeds will be seen as status dogs.

@Questiontellme

I agree OP but your wasting you're time, Children's lives are still very cheap in this country sadly, and there's so many dog apologists out there you only have to look on these threads and on the comments when these stories are posted on facebook. I've seen some terrible posts on similar threads and on social media, a lot even blaming the children a 'well they probably antagonised it' line is used a lot - oh so that's OK then??? These people shout loudest and will try and shut down any discussion because they like to think their dogs and dog owners have more rights than the safety of children coupled with the fact this government don't really care about children, nothing will ever be done.

You’re right, it’s awful!… Even as a dog owner, I agree with you.

@MsWalterMitty

Pumperthepumper

Prescottdanni123
This whole story just demonstrates that these so called adults were never fit to own a dog in the first place. In an ideal world, they wouldn't have been entrusted with a family of sea monkeys, let alone a dog.

Who buys a dog with unknown history, especially a breed like that, and brings it into the house with a toddler? Did they not stop to wonder why it's previous owners were trying to sell it? And they just assumed that it would be OK with children? It beggars belief.

Tragically, it is that poor little girl that has paid the ultimate price.
They have too though. I’m certain they didn’t want their daughter to die like that. It’s a horrible story all round, they deserve sympathy too.

They don’t deserve any sympathy… they’ve killed their child due to their own stupidity and ego!

There’s a reason why pet rescue centres rarely adopt to families with small children

Totally this.

Who in their right mind would think it was a good idea to buy a dog like that?!

I hope they’re done for manslaughter

If your dog killed someone do you think you should be done for manslaughter?

@Bloodybridget

It makes me sick reading these reports of children being horribly injured or killed, and then the family being quoted talking about their little angel and how devastated they are, when they themselves exposed the child to the danger.

I completely agree. I also think that people saying 'Now isn't the time to discuss this - this family have just lost their child!' - well, when is going to be the time? It's too soon when yet another child has lost their life... and so we wait and it's 'Oh, but there are loads of these dogs and there hasn't been an attack for ages!', as if that proves that they aren't a serious problem after all.

If you love your kids and you love dogs, you wouldn't put either in this sort of situation. I am, though, profoundly sorry for this little girl, who did NOT deserve to pay the price for her parents' terrible decision-making.