Parents smacking and slapping children should become illegal in England

[JC544D]

Today Wales has joined more than 60 nations in outlawing physical punishment of children. The new law means people will be committing a crime if they smack, hit, slap or shake a child in their care.

We don’t allow adults to be hit by another person, nor do we allow adults to hit animals.

I think it's more than time England followed suit in outlawing the physical punishment of children by their parents.

What is your view?

I also don't hit my children, mainly because I can hold my temper better than my parents, my own children aren't assholes like I was

Huh. Almost like hitting and humiliating your kids doesn’t improve their behaviour. Odd when so many of the defenders of smacking are insistent that there’s simply no other way to raise well behaved kids.

@Kanaloa

I also don't hit my children, mainly because I can hold my temper better than my parents, my own children aren't assholes like I was

Huh. Almost like hitting and humiliating your kids doesn’t improve their behaviour. Odd when so many of the defenders of smacking are insistent that there’s simply no other way to raise well behaved kids.

True - even when children are badly behaved there's no set correlation between smacking and good behaviour.

All studies aside, I hate it when people say 'kids today are..... they just need a good smack'. My sister was smacked routinely, she's an over dramatic snowflake but fairly well behaved, my daughter doesn't get smacked at all and is also an over dramatic snowflake who is fairly well behaved, there's not even a side behavioural benefit to hurting kids!

A smacking ban is well overdue in the UK!
I know many kids of my generation (70s/80s) were smacked, including myself, and I can say it didn’t do me any good, it was painful, humiliating and traumatising. Smacking is abuse and instils violence in children.

I’d agree rhe comments of well it didn’t harm me are concerning. So what it didn’t harm you. It’s harmed plenty of others and it doesn’t make it acceptable.

Violence, be it adult on adult is wrong. A smack, a slap, a belting. It’s wrong. And it’s even worse when it’s adult on child. A small child whose whole world is that parent., who can’t hit back, who can’t leave, who is totally impotent and has to take it is worse, it’s worse being the person who would hit a child and it’s worse being the powerless child being hit.

The type of person who does it, does it because they can. Because no one stops them. Because the child is powerless and can’t hit them back, because the trust the child won’t tell anyone what the parent is doing to them.

It’s abuse. If you hit your child you are abusing your own child.and we as a society need to stand up and tell these abusers you can’t hit your child or any child, by changing the law, just like Scotland has done, just like wales are done.

And schools need to talk to children about this. To tell them it’s never ok for someone to hit you, Inc your parents and if they do, you need to tell a teacher, or Give a way for the child to report.

The only acceptable level of abuse and assault is none. And this includes parent on child.

@Fairylightsongs

I’d agree rhe comments of well it didn’t harm me are concerning. So what it didn’t harm you. It’s harmed plenty of others and it doesn’t make it acceptable.

Violence, be it adult on adult is wrong. A smack, a slap, a belting. It’s wrong. And it’s even worse when it’s adult on child. A small child whose whole world is that parent., who can’t hit back, who can’t leave, who is totally impotent and has to take it is worse, it’s worse being the person who would hit a child and it’s worse being the powerless child being hit.

The type of person who does it, does it because they can. Because no one stops them. Because the child is powerless and can’t hit them back, because the trust the child won’t tell anyone what the parent is doing to them.

It’s abuse. If you hit your child you are abusing your own child.and we as a society need to stand up and tell these abusers you can’t hit your child or any child, by changing the law, just like Scotland has done, just like wales are done.

And schools need to talk to children about this. To tell them it’s never ok for someone to hit you, Inc your parents and if they do, you need to tell a teacher, or Give a way for the child to report.

The only acceptable level of abuse and assault is none. And this includes parent on child.

Well said.

I'm all for banning it.

But, never understood the following argument:

We don’t allow adults to be hit by another person, nor do we allow adults to hit animals.

We don't allow adults to ground each other and take away privileges either, that would be emotional and mental abuse.

I don't understand why the logic of "if it would be illegal to do to an adult, it should be illegal to do to a child" doesn't follow through.

Doesn't mean it is OK. Just, I think it's a bad justification for banning it personally.

@SoyaChai

I'm all for banning it.

But, never understood the following argument:

We don’t allow adults to be hit by another person, nor do we allow adults to hit animals.

We don't allow adults to ground each other and take away privileges either, that would be emotional and mental abuse.

I don't understand why the logic of "if it would be illegal to do to an adult, it should be illegal to do to a child" doesn't follow through.

Doesn't mean it is OK. Just, I think it's a bad justification for banning it personally.

Don’t you think someone who is smaller, less able to leave and powerless needs more protection in law not less?

Why is hitting someone vulnerable ok up to a point? Ie we’re fine if it’s an adult to a child

It seems counterintuitive and societally excused to me, hence the need for a change in law to signal it’s not ok.

Why is hitting someone vulnerable ok up to a point?

Did you not see the part where I said I want it to be banned?

@SoyaChai

Why is hitting someone vulnerable ok up to a point?

Did you not see the part where I said I want it to be banned?

Yes but I don’t agree with your this is illogical part of the post

Don’t you think someone who is smaller, less able to leave and powerless needs more protection in law not less?

Yes. I just don't think drawing comparisons to what you're allowed to do to adults is helpful in anyway as justification that's all. Surely using arguments arguing about the harm it causes children psychologically etc. and for no benefit to them is the better justification?

Why is hitting someone vulnerable ok up to a point? Ie we’re fine if it’s an adult to a child

I never claimed it was OK though. So, I don't know what your argument against me is.

We don't allow adults to ground each other and take away privileges either, that would be emotional and mental abuse.

To be fair, that's pretty much what prison is. Grounding for adults.

To be fair, that's pretty much what prison is. Grounding for adults. grin

True! I guess I meant in a domestic relationship, within a family etc. Either way, banning it is the way forward regardless of whether I agree with that particular reasoning above.

@SoyaChai

Don’t you think someone who is smaller, less able to leave and powerless needs more protection in law not less?

Yes. I just don't think drawing comparisons to what you're allowed to do to adults is helpful in anyway as justification that's all. Surely using arguments arguing about the harm it causes children psychologically etc. and for no benefit to them is the better justification?

Why is hitting someone vulnerable ok up to a point? Ie we’re fine if it’s an adult to a child

I never claimed it was OK though. So, I don't know what your argument against me is.

It’s just coming at it from different perspectives

I think that it is logical to say adults get protection, and children need more.

Others will look at it from another angle. If it’s banned then fine.

I do think that given there is an argument from some that well I get to choose clothes or food (in pp) so I get to choose re hitting makes changing the law even more necessary, as a signal that it’s not ok.

Who are these people who are still smacking their kids in 2022?! Shame on them. It should be illegal, I agree.

I hope this law is passed in England. I had a terribly violent childhood. Regular beaten with wooden spoon or a belt. Mainly because I couldn't finish all that was on my plate, and other minor reasons, also I was terrified to sleep on my own after sexual abuse a few years earlier so I was locked in the cupboard under the stairs or tied to my bed with rope. I prayed every night for help and always wished another family would adopt me. Tragically this was the 70s and although a teacher new, nothing was done. As a teen my dm and df didn't change their discipline and we all had beatings, I remember coming home early to find my younger brother being beaten in the kitchen. I grew up to be very angry and sadly disciplined my eldest harshly as my mother always encouraged slapping a child. I will always be mortified that I did this to my dd, I didn't understand gentle parenting as it was always built into me the parent is the absolute authority, what a parent says goes, children should be seen and not heard etc. Now almost 30 years later I have 3 dds and 1 dgs. I have learned so much over the years that children should never ever be smacked even for so called 'their own good'! My dgs has some issues that all the smacking in the world wouldn't solve. Even now at nearly 50 he's taught me so much about children and how to help them rather than discipline and even if they are being defiant there are much gentler ways to help them. I'm so ashamed at my parenting of my eldest dd. She has alot of anxiety as an adult even though she's an absolutely amazing woman. So please don't smack your children, it can leave a lasting legacy of emotional problems. I was terrified of going home after school and even as a young adult that fear was still there and I couldn't wait to leave home. So after all that writing (sorry) I am absolutely 💯 for the ban!

@Roses1221

Who are these people who are still smacking their kids in 2022?! Shame on them. It should be illegal, I agree.

I was outside my local shop a couple of weeks back and saw a woman hit a small child round the head a few times with her open hand - I'm assuming his mum. He looked maybe 3yo. I said something to her and she responded in a different language so obviously I don't know what she said and she probably didn't understand what I said either! All I could think was if she's cocky enough to hit him like that in public it doesn't bear thinking about what she does when he's in the home. It really bothered me that I couldn't just report her to the police on the spot.

@SoyaChai

To be fair, that's pretty much what prison is. Grounding for adults. grin

True! I guess I meant in a domestic relationship, within a family etc. Either way, banning it is the way forward regardless of whether I agree with that particular reasoning above.

To be fair to the poster you said you didn’t understand it, so they are just explaining to you why people are saying that.

So they have explained It’s becayse it’s illegal to hit an adult, but it’s not illegal to hit a more vulnerable person, a child.

As such the law should afford more protection to those who are vulnerable. Not less. We should all be protected from those who abuse and children are the most vulnerable becayse it’s their parents who do it. Often behind closed doors.

They’d shit themselves though if the child told.

This adult v child legalities is only one of many many reasons being put forward by many many posters.

However you asked, you said you couldn’t understand it, and it was explained clearly. I think that’s fair enough.

100% needs banning. Went to a friend’s house recently and they smacked their 3 year old as he was hitting his sister. It was just shocking, sad and completely counterproductive. Awful.

I don’t smack my dd and don’t plan to. I think it probably should be illegal in modern day UK.

However I think claiming that those that cannot mange to patent without smacking are just lazy bad parents comes from a place of privilege. All of the alternatives suggested - talking about feelings, removing the child from the situation, closer supervision all require time and resource.

The point of smacking is to make the child afraid of the smack so they won’t do the bad/dangerous behaviour . Children have little concept of danger. Here in our nice safe world we can keep our children out the road/away from the hob/river etc. If I was a Victorian mother with five kids under five and an open fire and well and had to do all the housework by hand I can well imagine I’d resort to smacking if my kid kept on trying to kill themselves because I simply would not have the time to protect them from all the dangers in the world and not smacking them but letting them drown/burn is not excellent parenting either. Smacking makes the child realise that a certain action (such as touching the fire) will hurt without exposing them to the risk of the fire. If I was a modern day parent who also lived in a similar situation I would maybe decide the same.

I remember being smacked once as a child after running into the road. My mum couldn’t afford childcare so I played out and loved it. I didn’t look one day and nearly got squashed and she smacked me. I didn’t do it again because I was scared of being smacked - I don’t think I could comprehend being run over so logic wouldn’t have worked - maybe shouting at me until I cried would also have worked but I’m not sure that’s worse than a smack. She could have kept me inside and not needed to smack but I think I preferred the smack and my free range freedom to roam than a life locked up until I understand the consequences of being run over - probably not till my teens I would guess. I’m not smac

The comparison to adults is not valid in my mind. We strap our kids into car seats even if they scream - we pick them up and carry them away from danger or things they like but can’t have - this would be illegal restraint and kidnap if you did it to an adult. We all use physical control on our children when they are too small to understand reason.

This never excuses physical abuse - hitting of a child that is done to humiliate and shame with no purpose other than to dominate. That’s horrid and I’m so sorry for the people who have gone through it.

Smacking taught me many things:

Only men punish and they punish you physically (wait until your father gets home)

I had to wait indefinitely for the punishment to arrive often long after the 'crime'

It wasn't just a smack, it was humiliation having my trousers pulled down etc.

There's an interesting report done by a charity which asks children about their experiences and it's heart breaking. They say things like adults hit children because they are big and children are small etc. You can rationalise as an adult in a way that a child can't.

It's only very recently that I've connected with that part of myself. I used to be a "it did me no harm" camp too.

I was in the 'it did me no harm' camp until I had children of my own. At that point, I came across gentle parenting and not humiliating children. Also got to know and understand children's brain development and age appropriate behaviour, how they are unable to control emotions at certain ages or rationalise like we can. I certainly don't practise all of gentle parenting but it was an eye opener to learn the psychology.

On reflection, I can now see that hitting did do me harm. Firstly, it gave me the attitude as a child that physically fighting was acceptable (99% of the time it would be with siblings but far far more than my children hit each other), also taught me not to express emotions, to be ashamed when others hurt me (a teacher physically hit me once and my parents only found out because another child complained - I didn't dare complain as I thought I'd get punished again at home. As an adult, I can see I did nothing to deserve being hit by that teacher), parents did not know a lot about what happened at school as I always thought I deserved any injustice. It brings tears to my eyes to think of my children having similar experiences and not telling me. Hitting took away the open relationship and communication and created shame and humiliation. It definitely has no place in discipline today.

The point of smacking is to make the child afraid of the smack so they won’t do the bad/dangerous behaviour

I don’t understand this or why other posters are insistent on telling posters what the point of hitting a child is.

This is not the case that the parent intellectualises, considers all options then chooses violence as the best method to sanction or stop a child.

Hitting is nearly always an emotional response. Anger, annoyance, irritation, frustration, or from shitty people who do it because they can.

It’s seldom to never some well considered form of punishment in the child’s best interests that the parent has carefully considered.

Just like any other scenario where someone gets hit, it’s usually an emotional response.

It’s seldom to never some well considered form of punishment in the child’s best interests that the parent has carefully considered.

I don't even know why that's supposed to be better. You actually thought about it, considered all possibilities, and this was the best thing you could come up with? So what, you called your child over so you could hit them in cold blood?

And that's BETTER?

If I hadn't experienced it myself, I would not have believed that a child could hate their parents as much as smacking made me hate mine.

I can see that people who have smacked their own children have got a vested interest in it not being made illegal. Then they have to face the fact that something they did was wrong enough to have been outlawed. Their kids will know this too.
Really though, we need to do what's right and it's only a matter of time before it becomes illegal as it is in more than 60 countries now.

@DrSbaitso

It’s seldom to never some well considered form of punishment in the child’s best interests that the parent has carefully considered.

I don't even know why that's supposed to be better. You actually thought about it, considered all possibilities, and this was the best thing you could come up with? So what, you called your child over so you could hit them in cold blood?

And that's BETTER?

If I hadn't experienced it myself, I would not have believed that a child could hate their parents as much as smacking made me hate mine.

Agreed. Few things are more disturbing (in my view) than posters trying to justify their parents hitting them on the grounds that it was always done in a calm and calculated manner.