Parents smacking and slapping children should become illegal in England

[JC544D]

Today Wales has joined more than 60 nations in outlawing physical punishment of children. The new law means people will be committing a crime if they smack, hit, slap or shake a child in their care.

We don’t allow adults to be hit by another person, nor do we allow adults to hit animals.

I think it's more than time England followed suit in outlawing the physical punishment of children by their parents.

What is your view?

"Didn't do any harm" is a low bar even on the rare occasions that it's true.

Things from my 80s/90s childhood that "didn't do me any harm".

• no carseat as a baby/toddler
• no seat belts in the backseat of a lot of cars even after they became law
• piling 5-6 kids in the back of a car, sitting on knees, even sitting in the boot
• being babysat by my cousin who was 11 and sensible
• once I was 11 and sensible the babysitter baton passed to me and I became the family babysitter, I looked after my four cousins for hours at a time and the youngest was only around 6mo
• playing out from breakfast to dinnertime then dinnertime to teatime with next to no supervision. We used to roam for miles and our parents would only have the vaguest idea of where so long as we were home by tea/before dark
• smoking allowed indoors absolutely everywhere. Top deck of the bus was smoking, smoking sections in cafes, you could smoke in the shopping centre, you could even smoke in the waiting room at the hospital because I remember once knocking over an ashtray in one
• going for rides in the back of my dad's work van, sitting on the toolbox because there were no seats
• being sent to the shop with money and a note from around the age of 5, my aunt used to give us a permission slip so we could get her cigarettes
• being left in the holiday apartment at night while the adults went out, holidays camps even offered a listening service
• as a baby I was put down to sleep on my tummy to prevent me getting a flat head, I also had a pillow and a quilt for comfort

And a lot more besides only that short selection.

None of it did me any harm, although plenty of other children were harmed by these things, and the majority of it would be considered harmful and/or neglectful by today's standards.

Smacking is the same.

Banning it won't entirely stop it, there will still be parents who do it, but it will begin a cultural shift away from it being acceptable (although not ideal) to completely unacceptable.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

I’m not agreeing with smacking but comments like this “If your child is NT and you’ve parented so poorly thay they totally ignore you when you ask them to stop and you have no control” tells me that most on this thread don’t have difficult testing children- you think bad behaviour is solely down to how a child is brought up. Having a well behaved vs a naughty child is mostly down to luck- and if you’re child doesn’t care about losing a toy or a naughty step then some parents have less avenues to turn. Now I never felt unloved or abused by my parents who occasionally smacked me/ those who did I would say didn’t have a happy childhood with an occasional smack but rather an unhappy childhood where they were also smacked

I agree with this.

I was smacked occasionally, but never in anger or hard. It was done as a consequence I suppose and to me it was no different to other punishments. I don't think it did me any harm, but I still don't agree with smacking as it clearly has done others harm.

I don't think banning it would be a cure-all of course because the parents that were abusive will still be abusive. If they smack less or not at all they'll probably ramp up other areas of abuse to compensate. I still think it should be banned as that then sends a message to non-abusive parents to use other methods.

@Sandinmyhooves

I cannot imagine a worse thing to do as a parent than teach your child that the ones who love them most can and will hurt them. How to really fuck up your kids.

100% agree with this.

I can't believe it's still legal. To think that DH could hit me and I could have him arrested, but he could hit tiny 5 yo DD and that would be ok I can't stand it when people say that it did them no harm. In what world is it ok to hurt others, especially the smallest and most vulnerable.

@Coulddowithanap

Trouble is making it illegal will do nothing. People who smack their children still will.

Same as its illegal to murder but that doesn't stop some people.

Should murder be legal then? Is murder very common?

I think it will make a difference. If nothing else it sends a message in very clear terms that this is unacceptable in society. Too many people still seem to think it's a valid parenting technique or no big deal.

I also assume it would make a difference to custody cases or in cases where ss are involved.

@Hospedia

I also remember the feeling of lying in bed after a smack and feeling so unloved and unwanted. Crying, quietly so I didn't get the speech about "I'll give you something to cry for/you're only crying for yourself", feeling hateful about what had been done to me, hateful towards my dad, hateful towards towards to myself, angry at myself for feeling hateful because its wrong to hate, sad about being hateful and angry, sad because I was obviously hated, sad because I was useless and bad or else why would I keep acting in ways that got me smacked, stupid too as I didn't learn, and that brought us back around to unloved and rejected.

It's not a feeling I ever want for my DC.

This. 100%. Been there, done that, and got a wardrobe full of Tee shirts.

In our house it was never just a smack or a tap. It was a full on beating and followed the pattern of a battering around the head before the belt came off. If you were lucky it would be the leather strap, if not it was the buckle end and he stopped when he had burnt himself out leaving me stiff and aching for several days after. I used to go to bed at night and pray that he wouldn’t wake up in the morning. It certainly didn’t make me love him or respect him. The other parent offered no protection whatsoever. The savageness of those beatings, the pain unnecessarily inflicted, the injustice, the rejection, the feelings of self loathing, confusion, and fear. No, I would never want to, and never did, inflict any of that on my children. I am in my 70s now and still suffer physically, emotionally, and mentally from that treatment in my childhood.

Without battering the living daylights out of my children or ‘knocking some respect’ into them they have grown up into decent human beings who understand reason and kindness and give out both in ample measure. They have never known what it is like to be smacked and, in turn, have never ever smacked their own children. It is never necessary.

My father would say that ‘a hiding’ never did him any harm. It did. It turned him into an abusing parent who beat the crap out of his kids and fucked them up for life.

This law can’t come in quick enough. An abusing parent is always going to be an abusing parent and children who are abused will continue to hide the abuse out of fear and shame but it may make some people think twice. Anything that makes home safer for children has got to be a good thing.

I completely agree OP. I'm disgusted that it's still allowed in this country.

devpatelslaughingeyes I am so sorry you went through that, and what an incredibly poignant and eloquent way of making the point.

I'm 54. My mum smacked me and my sister (my dad did not). I had a good childhood, but decided a very long time ago that I would not hit my children. And I haven't. And when my mum watched me parent my DDs, she came right out with it and told me that she wished she had had the patient and insight to handle things the way I was doing back when we were little. I've nver loved and respected her as much as I did when she said that, and she was a great mum. Who had a very dysfunctional and damaging childhood herself and made ours better than hers had been - my sis and I were just the next step.

Smacking is always, always bad.

@Auvergnewater

Weird how running into the road is always the thing that justifies a smack.

You pull them back, not hit them, surely.

When parents hit children, they do it because they enjoy it. Not in “that” way - they may feel awful afterwards- but for the briefest of moments it allows them to relieve the tension.

It’s an awful thing to do.

I agree with this. It's a nonsense excuse.

My three year old very very nearly ran into the road the other day. I caught her by her coat hood to stop her, crouched down to her level (in a total panic and feeling very upset with her) and really, really told her off.

I was raging with her to be honest, and absolutely frightened at 'what could have happened'. She never runs off, she's not a bolter. I don't know what got into her.

I didn't hit her. Even with that impulsive, naughty, frankly very dangerous behaviour, I didn't hit her.

The telling off was enough. She has to hold my hand at all times now whereas normally she's allowed to potter along next to me (it's a very quiet village, hardly any traffic). So she's learned that 1) Don't run off or Mum will be really cross and tell you off and 2) Because you ran off now you have to hold hands always instead of being allowed to walk like a big girl.

Would hitting have achieved this? No.

The only people who think it should be legal to hit children are abusers.

@Glassesmare

I can't believe it's still legal. To think that DH could hit me and I could have him arrested, but he could hit tiny 5 yo DD and that would be ok I can't stand it when people say that it did them no harm. In what world is it ok to hurt others, especially the smallest and most vulnerable.

I know. When you read these in context of a man hitting a woman it brings home how awful it is an adult can still legally hit a child.

When you read these in context of a man hitting a woman it brings home how awful it is an adult can still legally hit a child
So then you would allow your child to entirely decide everything from their diet to their clothes because if a man told you what to eat and what to wear they would be controlling?

It should be illegal.
Many people manage to raise their children to adulthood without ever laying a finger on them. Are they just better people? No. They're just normal same as everyone else. Nobody has to hit their child. If they choose to they should own it. I choose to hit my child because I want to.

Well that last sentence just reads like I hit my child! It should have put those ' round it. 🙄

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

When you read these in context of a man hitting a woman it brings home how awful it is an adult can still legally hit a child So then you would allow your child to entirely decide everything from their diet to their clothes because if a man told you what to eat and what to wear they would be controlling?

Hitting a child stands out as particularly bad don’t you think?

Or do you see it as ok?

Yes I do separate it out and think child should be protected by law from adults who think it’s ok to hit them.

A child..

@Glassesmare

I can't believe it's still legal. To think that DH could hit me and I could have him arrested, but he could hit tiny 5 yo DD and that would be ok I can't stand it when people say that it did them no harm. In what world is it ok to hurt others, especially the smallest and most vulnerable.

Completely! Just did conflict training for work and we're told, rightly, that even a poke in the shoulder by a client is common assault and how we don't have to put up with abuse but then smacking kids is still legal, it makes no sense.

@IncompleteSenten

Well that last sentence just reads like I hit my child! It should have put those ' round it. 🙄

Ha at this good save. I agree with you btw

There will always be those who try to justify it - on this thread too.

Good on Wales.

I hope the spineless pieces of shit who think it is acceptable to hurt children get prosecuted.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

When you read these in context of a man hitting a woman it brings home how awful it is an adult can still legally hit a child So then you would allow your child to entirely decide everything from their diet to their clothes because if a man told you what to eat and what to wear they would be controlling?

I would give my child choice in the context that they are able to use that choice. If I was an adult but had the understanding of a 3 year old I would also expect to be guided on diet and appropriate clothes to wear.

Exactly what though is needed by smacking, whether you're 2 or 50?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers you can't be for real? Of course I decide what my children eat and what they wear. They are too young to make good choices so they rely on me to do so on their behalf. Of course when they are older they can make these choices for themselves, armed with the knowledge of what's healthy and appropriate.

They also rely on me to protect and defend them, hence why I'll never lay a finger on them.

What you've said doesn't make sense.

Gosh no idea why I thought this was already illegal here. How weird. Must have been discussed and then not agreed maybe. 🤔

Hitting a child stands out as particularly bad don’t you think?
I’m not pro smacking but I can separate the idea of a smack on the bum being used as a consequence punishment vs an out of control adult giving a child a beating. Do I think other punishments are necessarily better and less psychologically damaging, not always.
I also think comparing to how adults should treat one mother as pointless, it’s apples and oranges

I had a friend whose father used the belt on them. I was really scared of him, even though he was never nasty to me.

Hitting children is abuse. I am glad Wales has made this move.

[quote Liverbird77]@OnlyFoolsnMothers you can't be for real? Of course I decide what my children eat and what they wear. They are too young to make good choices so they rely on me to do so on their behalf. Of course when they are older they can make these choices for themselves, armed with the knowledge of what's healthy and appropriate.

They also rely on me to protect and defend them, hence why I'll never lay a finger on them.

What you've said doesn't make sense.[/quote]
I’m pointing out the absurdity of comparing a spouse to a child- would I hit my husband? No but neither would I remove his phone if he did something I didn’t want him to