Parents smacking and slapping children should become illegal in England

[JC544D]

Today Wales has joined more than 60 nations in outlawing physical punishment of children. The new law means people will be committing a crime if they smack, hit, slap or shake a child in their care.

We don’t allow adults to be hit by another person, nor do we allow adults to hit animals.

I think it's more than time England followed suit in outlawing the physical punishment of children by their parents.

What is your view?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Hitting a child stands out as particularly bad don’t you think? I’m not pro smacking but I can separate the idea of a smack on the bum being used as a consequence punishment vs an out of control adult giving a child a beating. Do I think other punishments are necessarily better and less psychologically damaging, not always. I also think comparing to how adults should treat one mother as pointless, it’s apples and oranges

I find your example baffling tbh as said by pp.

In your mind diet etc is comparable to hitting

What is good parenting to you? Eat anything they want and hit them?

Obviously peopls make decisions on diet etc for their children and also don’t hit them, I’d prefer the non hitting to be legally backed. As many adults think it’s ok and justify it.

Unfortunately, it won't stop people who beat/abuse their children.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers - but you remove a phone, in your example, because the child in question isn't yet either mentally or emotionally competent to make a sound decision for themselves so you need to show them how to manage certain things and enforce it until they're mature enough to make the decision for themselves, even if they then make bad decisions, as they'll then understand the decisions they're making and are mature enough to take the consequences. If your husband was mentally incompetent and having a phone was hurting him somehow I hope you WOULD take it from him, so the comparison doesn't work.

Smacking though is not helping an immature child manage anything though so why would you, same as you wouldn't hit an adult, mentally competent or not.

i find your example baffling tbh as said by pp my example is not to justify smacking but to dismiss the idea you can say smacking is always bad because my husband can’t touch me

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

i find your example baffling tbh as said by pp my example is not to justify smacking but to dismiss the idea you can say smacking is always bad because my husband can’t touch me

To you as you’ve justified hitting children a few times

But to others they find it strange and would prefer the law to catch up as it has in Scotland and Wales, thankfully

I very much hope England will follow.

Agreed.

And I also think we need to clamp down on children hitting other children. I see so many threads on here about children being hit in schools with little consequence that I am seriously considering home education.

Given that it's been illegal to smack children in sweden since 1979, what is it that people are worried about happening if we join the dozens of countries who've also banned it? What advantages of it do people think sweden and the dozens of other countries are missing out on? The enjoyment of assaulting vulnerable, small people?
The fact that it being illegal to hit your wife doesn't stop domestic abusers means we should make it legal to hit your wife does it?
If you can't cope with a child without being allowed to assault it you should have remained childless. It just makes kids more aggressive and can sometimes make them grow up thinking it's OK for an adult to assault a child. It's not.
If smacking was illegal at least child abusers would no longer be able to justify it in their head as being legally allowed.

I’m not justifying hitting a child- I’m happy to make it illegal to eliminate the risk of some abuse falling through the cracks but I do think there is a grey area for most parents who have used smacking as a form of punishment- it’s not always uncontrolled abuse

Oh, I remember! I was only smacked a few times, and I remember every time very well - and not in a good way. I was absolutely terrified of my parents. You may think that's a good thing, but in my book, it's not.

@EarlGreywithLemon please point out where I said it was a good thing.

I hate when people say if it's not ok for for a husband to hit his wife it's not ok to hit a child. Parents have authority over their children, they have to teach them how to behave, and sometimes they have to punish bad behaviour, the one has nothing to do with the other. Really irks me. Anyway, slapping in our society is frowned on, as it should be, it is abusive and pointless, and it doesn't work as a punishment imo. Should it be outlawed, i don't know, it seems a bit pointless, are we going to throw people into jail if they break that law, or punish them in any way, if not what's the point? I was slapped occasionally as a child, in school and at home, i am one of those people who would say it didn't do me any harm, but then it was considered normal at that time, so completely different to now.

@Deadringer

I hate when people say if it's not ok for for a husband to hit his wife it's not ok to hit a child. Parents have authority over their children, they have to teach them how to behave, and sometimes they have to punish bad behaviour, the one has nothing to do with the other. Really irks me. Anyway, slapping in our society is frowned on, as it should be, it is abusive and pointless, and it doesn't work as a punishment imo. Should it be outlawed, i don't know, it seems a bit pointless, are we going to throw people into jail if they break that law, or punish them in any way, if not what's the point? I was slapped occasionally as a child, in school and at home, i am one of those people who would say it didn't do me any harm, but then it was considered normal at that time, so completely different to now.

I get it irks people who want to justify hitting children but those who’d like to see it stop would prefer the law catches up, as it has already in many countries.

@SoupDragon I’m afraid saying that you weren’t damaged by smacking and that “there is a huge difference between what I remember and what others have gone through which is clearly abusive” looks like justifying smacking.

Smacking of any kind should be classed - by law - as always abusive. Because it is.

i get it irks people who want to justify hitting children but those who’d like to see it stop would prefer the law catches up, as it has already in many countries you really do struggle with the concept of an argument don’t you. The poster in question is not pro smacking but pointing out the absurdity of comparing to the treatment of adults. Or do you take your husbands electronics off him if he’s spent too much time on them?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

i get it irks people who want to justify hitting children but those who’d like to see it stop would prefer the law catches up, as it has already in many countries you really do struggle with the concept of an argument don’t you. The poster in question is not pro smacking but pointing out the absurdity of comparing to the treatment of adults. Or do you take your husbands electronics off him if he’s spent too much time on them?

Tbh I just see people using it as an argument to keep the law as it is.

I hope they don’t get that and society moves on wrt hitting children.

I don’t really care about your ‘argument’ much more than that other than it sounds like a justification for awful parenting. Fine you do you.

I still hope it changes and we don’t need to hear oh but I don’t take my husband’s phone or whatever - I just drift off when people start going on about it.

Should it be outlawed, i don't know, it seems a bit pointless, are we going to throw people into jail if they break that law, or punish them in any way, if not what's the point?
It can be dealt with as with any other safeguarding issue. Are parents immediately thrown into jail anytime a safeguarding issue is raised? No of course not. But as with other safeguarding causes for concern, assault of children shouldn't be ignored. Smacking in sweden has massively reduced following it being made illegal. No one needs to worry that Swedish prisons are packed with hitting parents as they are just less likely to be in favour of it or do it. A great thing for Swedish children

I hate when people say if it's not ok for for a husband to hit his wife it's not ok to hit a child
I hate it when people give lame justifications for assaulting children. Hitting a child is worse than hitting a woman due to the size difference and the child's inability to escape.

It's good that 75% of us are against assaulting children. Hopefully the other 25% will catch up eventually as in other countries.

@Catalinka

I hate when people say if it's not ok for for a husband to hit his wife it's not ok to hit a child I hate it when people give lame justifications for assaulting children. Hitting a child is worse than hitting a woman due to the size difference and the child's inability to escape.

Exactly

And it gets murky when adults justify it with well I chose their clothes and food, so I can do this too

A change in law, as other countries have done, would signal that it is not the same

@Whitewhitewalls

Quite a large % of the vote is YABU, I wish those people would comment as well so we can see other POV.

I think there are probably a few reasons people might think it's a bad idea, likely it will be a few of these things taken together:

• they don't think it will be an effective law.
• they don't really buy the "I wouldn't hit another adult" thing, because there are lots of other instances where we treat children differently.
• there isn't actually a lot of empirical evidence that shows that societies where smacking/spanking happens have poorer outcomes than societies where it does.
• They see it as imposing bourgeoisie morality on other cultural groups or class groups.
• they may also argue that it's disingenuous to conflate smacking with hitting or abuse, even if they are ready to agree that some people will excuse abusive behaviour as if it is just discipline.

Choose..

I just drift off when people start going on about it I understand, it’s hard for your rationale to hold up when the most obvious counter argument is explained to you, better you drift off

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

I just drift off when people start going on about it I understand, it’s hard for your rationale to hold up when the most obvious counter argument is explained to you, better you drift off

It doesn’t matter how insulting you are, although I get it might be some kind of get back that makes you feel ok about stuff.

I can’t agree with hitting children and think it’s a big shame some justify it

And hope the law changed soon.

There's better ways to discipline a child than physically hurting them. And those that take offence and say it doesn't hurt, yes it does. You're lying to yourself. A quick hit to the back of the hand or leg usually causes a sharp, short sting. It's socially unacceptable for a reason. Keep your hands to yourself.

@Nicholethejewellery

I thought it was illegal already tbf. Certainly people round here seem to disapprove of it if you do it in public. I'm not sure how I feel about outlawing it to be honest, on the face of it it sounds like a good idea but there isn't another suitable punishment that gives the same effect. Smacking works because it is painful and/or embarrassing and/or degrading to the child. It's these things that children fear from a punishment, it's these things that make them think about their behaviour in a way that sitting on the "naughty step" or getting a "timeout" or not being allowed to watch their favourite TV programme doesn't.

Berlinbabylon's "well thought out psychological punishment" sounds quite disturbing in comparison to a smack, messing with a child's head sounds more damaging long term.

There ‘isn’t another punishment’ that causes your child pain and degrades them that’s not ‘making them think about their behaviour’ that’s making them think about their parent hurting and humiliating them. The only thing that will make them think about their behaviour is taking the time repeatedly to talk to them and waiting for them to emotionally mature until they can understand why they mustn’t do whatever they’re doing, as well as teaching them other ways to deal with it.

For example, if my son leaves his room all messy, me hitting and humiliating him won’t really ‘make him thing about his behaviour,’ it will just hurt and humiliate him. However, if I set aside time to talk to him about the importance of a clean and tidy environment and help teach him how to tidy it, as well as giving him tips to keep on top of it, then he will be able to evaluate that behaviour and change it.

Definitely should be made illegal. Whatever the age it's still assault. Think about that.