Children expressing emotions AIBU

[Idkiibu]

Me and my friend have different parenting styles. But reflecting back from our yesterday’s conversation with her, I’m trying to understand AIBU towards my own 2 children?
We are talking about children aged 7-10 years old. My friend’s children are sometimes tired after school etc and it comes out the way that I wouldn’t personally accept from my own children, e.g. shouting at parents, kicking things, saying rude staff like “shut up” and slamming the door. My friend talks to her children in a calm way and is trying to “ride it out”. I respect her patience, I really do.
But I don’t accept this with my own. A few times it happened I said to my children firmly that I’m always there for them, they can embrace me and spend time with me, they can tell me everything and we will find the way out of the situation, etc etc. But I don’t deserve to be shouted at and there will be no door slamming at my house, so they have to approach me in a different way and I’ll help them then. I don’t want my children to bottle things up, but am I wrong that at this age they have to learn not to hurt others emotionally even if they are upset? On the other hand, children are only learning about how to express themselves and can’t always control their emotions.
I feel like our approaches are different and that’s fine but am I too strict to my children? It’s not like they are not allowed to be upset or cry, it’s the aggression and shouting I can’t stomach. One day when my friend’s DS (9) was tired after his own party, he said to his mother “shut up, I hate you”. My heart was broken for her and I don’t know how she managed to stay calm. I said nothing and never mentioned it again after she said “it’s been a long day, he’s so tired”.
Our children don’t have SEN and do well at school, no behaviour concerns etc.

I voted yanbu but your idea of 'behaviour is a choice' isn't strictly true at this age, the brain isn't fully developed until early 20s! I had to dish out a consequence the other day because of ds angry behaviour, gave a warning first. He was devastated after the fact and when I said I had given a warning, he said I heard it but I was so angry I couldn't stop.. Obviously I held to consequence set but did reflect on middle of the storm not being the ideal time to throw it in. Like most people when children are off balance, reason isn't their strength! Like a pp, I hate you wouldn't really bother me as obviously I know it's not coming from truth but more frustration. Over time we can reflect their feelings and give them better words and ways to express them. They'll get there, but not all at the same time and always better to explode than implode.

@Jadecarrot

You seem very smug at how controlled you are. Congratulations.

Not smug, irritated by what OP sees as indulging behaviour. It grates to see how permissive some parents are. They seems to think that they need to tolerate kids' aggressive and rude behaviour to let them grow into rounded individuals. I disagree with this, kids need to learn that it's normal to have these emotions and learn to deal with them in a non destructive way. They need to. learn to identify what is making them feel so mad and frustrated and deal with this in a problem solving way while not judging themselves negatively for having the emotions. Basically we need to teach them self awareness but by bit, that will allow them to be resilient and manage their lives. Of course teens are notorious for lack of self awareness but here I'd say deescalate while always showing that aggressive behaviour is not tolerated but that the emotion behind lashing out will always be respected and supported.

Thanks @Ponoka7
I do understand the situations where children are struggling with this kind of a behaviour consistently in more than one setting and “punishment” won’t be effective. Luckily it’s not the case here and sometimes I feel like they want to “try” this behaviour out and see what happens? My DS reads a lot and knows about the “moody teenagers”, this kind of behaviour sometimes is shown on TV like previous poster mentioned etc.

Really well expressed (!) Jacksworld.

A good structure we used successfully here last week was I feel X because Y, I need Z. Really clear and useful communication. My ds can be explosive but while all behaviours are not OK, I am always clear how much he is loved, how anger is OK as I feel inside he actually has quite a bit of shame around it, despite my best efforts.

The words your needing here are "middle ground" there is a time and a place and a WAY to express anger and frustration appropriately

Both of you are wrong

@Lolapusht
Thanks for your reply.
I didn’t shout at my child, I used strict voice, it’s different.
I agree, it’s sounds “conditional” and it worries me. At the same time, I need this behaviour to stop before I’m able to help my child. It also hurts me a lot and affects me, and I think even though I’m a grown up, I want my children to care for me as well. I can’t say “it’s ok if you shout and insult me until you’re… 15 and then you have to stop”. I’m struggling with the fear of normalising the behaviour, I don’t want it to become normal. It’s really different to the child being upset or crying or sad, it’s all very very normal. It’s children or people in general dumping bad feelings in you in an aggressive way that bothers me. As if “I’m tired or worried, it’s all your fault”. I had that a bit when my children were in the reception class. That’s a very young age so I knew they are too young to cope. I remember everything was my fault then for a while. But after a while this behaviour stopped. But being 9-10 is different to being 4.

@Theunamedcat
I actually think you’re right here. I need to learn not to take everything personally and she needs to learn that she doesn’t have to accept every negative behaviour thrown at her as it’s normal. But I will never tell her that though.

It's a fine line to walk as parents and tbh no-one gets it bang on everytime

The thing is it isnt about YOU. DS has on occasion told me he hates me. He doesnt at all - he is overwhelmed for whatever reason and he cant articulate that in the way he wants to so he says that. Because he loves me and he knows I love him unconditionally.

For my children I and their home is a safe space. A space where they can let go a little bit of the day whilst learning how to regulate them

@HeyGirlHeyBoy
Thanks for your reply.
Actually “warning” rather than a consequence seems like something very appropriate on this type of situations.

I think your children are different, and I used to think like you until my youngest. On the very rare occasions my oldest gets angry, I just have to use a firm voice, he will almost immediately realise he is in the wrong and will get upset and apologise.

So with my oldest, it would have gone like this in the case of shouting or door slamming (he's a teen but has never really raised his voice at me):
Him: angry shout. Slam
Me: excuse me?! Come back here. I don't know what you are angry about but you absolutely cannot speak to me like that. I need you to come here, apologise and I will help you sort it out, but I can only do that when you speak to me.

With youngest:
Him: angry shout. Slam.
If I tried the above method with him:
Me: Excuse me?! Come back here-
Him: screaming (noooooo). Probably continued screaming at top of his lungs. Significant chance he would turn violent and attempt to shove me. If I tried to de-escalate the violence would increase. He is probably neuro divergent but does very well at school but is massively triggered by being slightly tired or hungry. He's already improved over the last couple of years, but yes - he has issues with managing his big feelings in a way that isn't aggressive. He doesn't watch tv much so it's not that, he has just always been this way.

How I would actually handle it with youngest:
Him: angry shout. Slam.
Me: (probably relieved he isn't taking out his anger on anybody physically) are you okay?
Him: shouts again
Me: let me know when you are calm and I'll come and speak to you
Him: crashes around his room, calming down. After a bit - "I'm ready"
Me: I don't know what you are angry about but you absolutely cannot speak to me like that. I need you to apologise and I will help you sort it out, but I can only do that when you speak to me.
I would never do the above bit until he was calm. Doing that earlier would be the equivalent of pouring petrol and a ton of tinder on a small fire.

Please do not judge your friend (you have used quite a lot of judgemental language in your post). Just because your children react differently does not mean yours are better. We parent for the kids we have, not the kids we want. If I could use your approach (same I use on my eldest) and not have my youngest spiral into a violent meltdown, I would. Please don't think it hasn't occurred to her either.

@Quartz2208
But it is about me too. Relationships are a two way street? We all have feelings and our own struggles. We are always there for them and I agree maybe I’m too sensitive but “I hate you” would really knock me down.

But not when they're in the middle of an explosion, is the point. That was my mistake... Coregulate and later reason is the best route. But hey, won't beat myself up. I was a bit out of kilter myself in the moment!!
A good rule of thumb that I have read many times in different child psych books 'A child is not responsible for an adult' s emotions' so even tho what they say might be unreasonable, I'd rather they say it and, as I say, guide them over time.

I agree with you in theory and I don't accept it from my own DC (who are still quite young), however I'm a hypocrite as I occasionally lose my cool and am very rude towards them. I was brought up with an obnoxious, arsehole father who would shout and swear. This becomes ingrained unfortunately, so I have picked up some of these traits when under stress. I try very, very hard to counter it and do a good job most of the time of being polite and respectful towards my family but I have to actively work at it and the ugly side of my conditioning exposes itself on occasion. So if my DC start giving it back to me as they get older well there's not much I will be able to say/do about that as it will be a case of monkey see monkey do.

My point being your friend's children are getting it from somewhere. Either she's not quite so passive when you're not around (as is almost always the case with parents!) or they're dad is rude?

@Introvertedbuthappy
I find your comment very helpful and please don’t think I don’t try to understand.
Like every other person I can be judgmental but it’s comes from a place of confusion and I reflect a lot along the way about my own parenting, believe me.

I agree with you in theory. In practice my 6 year old is acting out due to issues at school, she is unhappy, and if we punish her for aggressive behaviour, it seems to escalate with her becoming completely hysterical and feeling like everyone hates her, even when we explain we love her but that it's not acceptable to shout / slam doors etc.... I feel a bit lost about what to do to be honest.

My dad was similar @Chonfox
Actually yes, their father is completely different to my friend and quite moody/explosive, he’s a nice guy though

I understand OP, I actually cringe at some of the judgements I used to make on parents before my youngest. Ironically he has made me a better parent, although I do miss not having to almost hold an imaginary flowchart in my head when thinking through the nuances of how I respond to certain parenting situations. Thanks for reflecting on my post. I imagine people may say of me what you think of your friend, the thing is I always talk to my youngest about his actions being wrong, and he does always express remorse and is genuinely sorry and anxious to please afterwards. I just know that you when he's feeling angry or upset it's almost like handling a grenade and trying to get the pin back in without it going off.

He does have consequences, but I never dish them out in the moment, only in the conversation about appropriateness afterwards, and that would never be in front of others.

It's our job to teach our children to handle their emotions in appropriate ways.

If we don't, they're going to have a lot of trouble in school, work, relationships.

If they're violent, destroying things, or name calling, are they doing it to everyone, their siblings, their mum, their father?

Surely you parent the children you have with the resources available to you. I don't really think that slamming doors is done to hurt anyone's feelings, so it doesn't bother me if my kids express their rage like that, but it bothers you, so you ask them to find another way to relieve their frustration.

I have one child who needs to be alone when angry, and another who needs to talk through it to calm down, so I respond to their moods differently.

I don't see the link between an angry child and not allowing TV, but if it makes you feel as though you have addressed the things that bothered you about your child's outburst then it seems fairly harmless. Did you explain that you thought their behaviour was influenced by the TV shows they were watching? We talk about what they watch on TV and discuss how characters might feel and how they could deal with things better which seems to help them avoid emulating the most obnoxious behaviour.

@Idkiibu it's not wrong to give a consequence, because you're right, the way they expressed their emotion was a choice. To help them move forward it's teaching them strategies to cope with the emotions that they are dealing with (much easier said than done) and some do come with maturity and learning through having consequences.

I think you are absolutely on the ball OP. It’s ok to feel upset and angry and sad, and there are appropriate ways to show these emotions and deal with them. It’s our job as parents to teach children how to cope with emotions - letting your kids be rude and aggressive towards you because they are angry is not teaching that. It sets a dangerous precedent for the future in some cases in my opinion. Makes you wonder how many perpetrators of domestic violence grew up thinking it’s ok to lash out if that’s how you need to express your emotions

I think you have expressed yourself very well on this thread, idkiibu.

You don't sound too strict at all, your children know they can come to you with any concerns, you're prepared to listen to and discuss things. It isn't unreasonable to object to door slamming and shouting.

Don't worry about your friend, she has her way and knows her kids better than you do. In any case the way we deal with issues often changes over the years.

I never had slanging matches with mine but I certainly did with my mother who never listened and was never wrong! If she had shown a little more patience and understanding I would have shouted less :).

[quote Idkiibu]@Quartz2208
But it is about me too. Relationships are a two way street? We all have feelings and our own struggles. We are always there for them and I agree maybe I’m too sensitive but “I hate you” would really knock me down.[/quote]
well no, its not about you because you are talking about children. They don't have the same skills, self control, empathy and understanding that you can feel entitled to expect from an adult. its like being hurt because you have cooked them a meal that they dislike....they aren't rejuecting you they are expressing a dislike for the recipe.

Agree godmum