To seek assurances that I’ll be put on a single sex ward?

[Thoosa]

Not single gender. Single sex.

Im due for one, maybe two, surgeries this year. I’m a DV and rape survivor.

I’m nervous.

[quote Piper22]@PurgatoryOfPotholes what do you mean by security? That’s an interesting choice of word. That research article doesn’t particularly relate to the issue of trans women. Do you have anything you can share which is relevant?[/quote]
A dictionary may help. Collins English is good, and you don't need to find your organisation's academic subscription to use the online edition.

Male transitioners are male. Unless you are planning to submit evidence suggesting they are more dangerous than male humans in general, we should treat them as we do other males. To do otherwise is unfair to non-transitioned males. Why should only some males be placed in female spaces but not others?

No, I don’t expect them to and actually actively don’t want them to invade anyone else’s privacy.

Which is exactly why single sex wards (or three options) is the obvious answer.

I just want to know my ward is single sex. I don’t expect the life histories of other patients and I’m a bit annoyed that I’m going to have to give my life history to get an answer.

I maybe should have made this explicit earlier, but naturally I’m also happy for there to be trans people around me, if they’re female sex.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes this still isn’t relevant because the research you’re sharing isn’t related to the issue of biological men who identify as female. You’re sharing research about mixed sex wards shared between biological females and biological males who identify as men. We’re just going round in circles

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I think you'll find most women who want single sex wards to be single sex do think women should be able to choose whether a male performs intimate care procedures on them, yes.

Oh blimey. I didn’t know that was ever not standard practice. I mean I thought intimate care was always conducted by staff of the same sex. Or at least that you could easily say “no” to that kind of treatment from men.

I’m really going to have to speak to them.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes I’m asking you what you mean by security in the context of this debate as its meaning can be multifaceted. If you’re just going to be flippant and obstructive by telling me look at a dictionary you’re probably more interested in having an altercation than you are in having a discussion about the issue so let’s leave it there

[quote Piper22]@PurgatoryOfPotholes this still isn’t relevant because the research you’re sharing isn’t related to the issue of biological men who identify as female. You’re sharing research about mixed sex wards shared between biological females and biological males who identify as men. We’re just going round in circles[/quote]
What evidence do you have that this specific subset of males shouldn't be treated like other males by default?

There are male transitioners who are identical twins. Why should one be placed on the female ward, but the other regarded as a safeguarding risk?

@Toddlerteaplease

They shouldn't tell anything else about anyone else's gender. That patient has a right to confidentiality as much as you do.

(I’m sorry I meant this as a a quote reply. I’ll try again.)

No, I don’t expect them to and actually actively don’t want them to invade anyone else’s privacy.

Which is exactly why single sex wards (or three options) is the obvious answer.

I just want to know my ward is single sex. I don’t expect the life histories of other patients and I’m a bit annoyed that I’m going to have to give my life history to get an answer.

I maybe should have made this explicit earlier, but naturally I’m also happy for there to be trans people around me, if they’re female sex.

To be clear, male transitioners who have identical male twin siblings who have not transitioned.

Why is one not deemed a risk, but the other is?

Thank you very, very much to everyone who has replied with more detailed insights, including those of you who are clearly HCPs.

I’m feeling a bit stressed and headachey now, so I’ll go through those informatively posts carefully later and maybe even make notes.

Thanks so much to those of you have been kind and understanding.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

To be clear, male transitioners who have identical male twin siblings who have not transitioned.

Why is one not deemed a risk, but the other is?

@PurgatoryOfPotholes deemed a risk by who?

Surely, the risks in order of likelihood are 1) Males on the Ward 2) Male staff.

The chances of there being anyone trans about (male to female) or that person being a rapist/abuser are minuscule compared to 1 and 2 above.

The people making this a 'trans issue' are serving their own agendas and spreading hate and panic.

@Linguini

Trans isn't the issue it's rapists being protected by hospitals that is the problem surely

Trans people don't stop being trans as soon as they use their penis to rape.

The problem isn't trans people, female trans people don't pose a problem, the problem is male people, trans or not.

This. The trans bit is irrelevant. The sex bit is highly relevant.

Exactly.

@LightSpeeds

Surely, the risks in order of likelihood are 1) Males on the Ward 2) Male staff.

The chances of there being anyone trans about (male to female) or that person being a rapist/abuser are minuscule compared to 1 and 2 above.

The people making this a 'trans issue' are serving their own agendas and spreading hate and panic.

I totally agree. This thread is so hateful and the kind of rhetoric wouldn’t be acceptable when discussing any other minority in society

All I hear is that trans women have been using female toilets and being put on female wards for years without any problems. Maybe in the 'old' days when there were few trans women who kept themselves to themselves and women just turned a blind eye. Things are different now that any ole man can say he's a woman and no-one dare question it.

The tide is turning regarding men hastling women etc, we are hearing more and more about men calling men out on their poor behaviour. This is the polar opposite of the situation with trans women. When it comes to men identifying as women all I hear is trans women basically saying they can do what they like and they are protected under the EA. Misogny at it's finest.

@StillWeRise

I’ve tried finding the figure as I remember reading and it’s something like 80pc don’t medically transition

Single sex wards are very rare in the NHS. With the exception of the obstetric areas (obviously, though we have had transmen, but feminists don't seem to have an issue with them), there are none in my hospital.

Do you mean single sex bays? This is standard practice, and in my many years of working for the NHS post qualification I have never seen a mixed sex bay.

deemed a risk by who?

Am I required to give the job titles of every single person who has agitated for single-sex wards, from shadow health secretaries, to spokespersons for the Patients' Association?

I totally agree. This thread is so hateful and the kind of rhetoric wouldn’t be acceptable when discussing any other minority in society

Have you thought of posting on pistonheads?
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=205&t=1974457&p=1

The wards themselves are unlikely to be single sex (unless gynae/labour & delivery) - most aren't, I'm afraid. The bays are likely to be single sex, I've only ever stayed on one mixed-sex bay and that was HDU.

TBF, some transwomen (many/most probably, but I only know “some” transwomen) are very aware of and insightful about the issues.

[quote Rummikub]@StillWeRise

I’ve tried finding the figure as I remember reading and it’s something like 80pc don’t medically transition[/quote]
For Women Scot say

that80-95% of people who say they are trans choose to have no medical treatment at all – no surgery, no drugs, not even therapy.

forwomen.scot/did-you-know/

Their source for this statistic is apparently the written evidence submitted by GIRES to the Transgender Equality Inquiry, authored by Terry Reed OBE, JP, BA(Hons), MCSP, SRP, GradDipPhys
data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/women-and-equalities-committee/transgender-equality/written/19292.pdf

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]deemed a risk by who?

Am I required to give the job titles of every single person who has agitated for single-sex wards, from shadow health secretaries, to spokespersons for the Patients' Association?

I totally agree. This thread is so hateful and the kind of rhetoric wouldn’t be acceptable when discussing any other minority in society

Have you thought of posting on pistonheads?
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=205&t=1974457&p=1[/quote]
It’s really dull discussing a topic with someone who just wants to be obstructive and point score. It also doesn’t do anything for you in your plight to share your thoughts in a way in which is likely to illicit any understanding from other people.

I have no idea what pistonheads and have no inclination to click on that link, though I have little doubt that it’s nothing more than another cheap shot.

Oh come on, that is really such a ridiculous comment. If you’re going to debate the topic please show some restraint and think before you post something so outlandish. More biologically female women have been assaulted by male care providers than they ever have or will be by trans women. Are you advocating for same sex care provision too?

@Piper22

How fucking dare you. I have been raped.

I don't care how a male identifies they are still a risk to me. Whilst I know the likelihood of being raped by a trans woman is small a trans woman is still male. It is traumatic for me to feel vulnerable with males who have access to me when I am asleep and sick.

How fucking dare you tell me that my thoughts on this are outlandish.

I ought to have the right to same sex intimate care.

@Thoosa sorry your thread is being derailed somewhat by my discussion with another poster. I really do wish you well for your procedure

Virtually no wards will be single sex. Bar labour and delivery. In my hospital we don't have a gynae ward just gynae beds on a medical ward so even that isn't single sex. All hospitals are different.

Do you mean a single sex ward (almost certainly won't happen) or single sex bay within the ward (almost certainly will happen)