Gotten

[WinniePig]

I’ve noticed many Americans using the term “gotten” and assumed it’s American English. Fine. But it’s not a word I would associate with good grammar on this side of the pond. Anyway, I’ve read a number of threads on here recently where the OP has written “gotten” in their original post (and each time I see it I shudder). Even worse…the dodgy verb crops up in this news article on the BBC (third para from end). The BBC (holds head in hands).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-60789542

AIBU to despair at how this horrible little verb is infecting the English language…

*Its to do with the way English usage has changed and has been influenced or part influenced by non-Germanic languages.

So originally it would have been something like "What I came in here for I have forgotten" with the prefix word at the end*

So it's basically ok to change the way a word is used if its because of non-Germanic languages, but not of it could be perceived to be American?

I've always used 'gotten'. I grew up in rural Wales more than 60 years ago, speaking Welsh first then almost exclusively English after the age of 7 or so. I spent most of my childhood buried in books rather than watching TV so I'm fairly sure my 'gotten' is native rather than influenced. I had no idea until the last couple of years that it's considered USAian, it's just a normal pattern of my speech.

Hate it but I’m an English teacher so not a fan of Americanism’s in general.

Is Shakespeare no longer taught as part of English literature in British schools any more, then? Or have we all been greatly misinformed about WS - was he actually a good ole Texan boy, y'all?

I hate everything about the word "gotten", but particularly when the stating-the-obvious types pop up to point out for the trillioneth time that its an American older form of English.

Anybody claiming that is clearly ignorant of simple history, then. Shakespeare lived in England from 1564–1616 and the KJ Bible was published in England in 1611 - both using the word 'gotten' - 160 years before the USA was established.

WeBuiltThisBuffet Anybody claiming that is clearly ignorant of simple history, then. Shakespeare lived in England from 1564–1616 and the KJ Bible was published in England in 1611 - both using the word 'gotten' - 160 years before the USA was established.

Why do people on social media love to throw around insults of ignorance? The English language has changed since Shakespeare, thats the whole point!

New Amsterdam only became English speaking New York in 1674. Its easy to imagine why American English was more comfortable retaining "gotten" in its past tense usage for longer than British English.

I’d never heard any angst about the word gotten until I lived in the UK. It’s a word. People use it elsewhere, English speaking people. People who are taught English are taught the word.

I find it such an ugly sounding word that I would never consider using it.

It's American slang and as I spent time in both the UK and the US education system, I picked up both lots. I rarely use slang but when I do I use it interchangeably.

@OchonAgusOchonOh
Sure thing bud!

Gotten jangles me rotten.

Also, I love the way language evolves, I find it fascinating. A close friend is from Quebec, her first language is French, in France she has similar issues. All very interesting.

@eandz13

I say gotten, I don't actually know where I've picked it up, it just sounds 'proper' in my head! I didn't realise it was an Americanism either, I hate Americanisms Will work on it now I've read this thread!

No, it's not an Americanism as "gotten" was common in Shakespeare's time.

Today we use the term "subtle" which would look odd to Shakespeare as it was written the way its pronounced - "suttle". The change was influenced by the French language.

SucculentChalice

I'm not intending to insult anybody - I'm just exasperated. Language does change, but it's fluid and doesn't have an expiry date (other than maybe for offensive words and terms): we don't just seal up a box labelled 'English Language pre 2000' and declare it obsolete and never to be used again.

As many non-American English-speakers on this thread have already confirmed, 'gotten' is still a living, breathing, everyday word that they use in their regular vocabulary.

We don't declare countless other words that have been in similar regular use for centuries as obsolete and 'wrong', purely because of their age.

@SucculentChalice

WeCouldBeSparrows Is forgotten also poor English? It's used in exactly the same way...

I have forgotten (singular past tense) - correct
I forgot (singular present tense) -correct
We forget (plural present tense) - correct
We forgot (plural past tense) - correct

I got (singular present tense) - correct
I have gotten (singular past tense) - correct
I've gotten (singular abbreviated past tense) - correct
We have gotten (plural past tense) - correct
I've gotten used in the English-imported-wrongly-from-American-English way to mean in the present tense - incorrect

You are correct!

I'm not a fan but DH and his family from Dorset have always used it.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

SucculentChalice

I'm not intending to insult anybody - I'm just exasperated. Language does change, but it's fluid and doesn't have an expiry date (other than maybe for offensive words and terms): we don't just seal up a box labelled 'English Language pre 2000' and declare it obsolete and never to be used again.

As many non-American English-speakers on this thread have already confirmed, 'gotten' is still a living, breathing, everyday word that they use in their regular vocabulary.

We don't declare countless other words that have been in similar regular use for centuries as obsolete and 'wrong', purely because of their age.

My point was, before you labelled thoughts such as mine as "ignorant", is that gotten was used in the past tense with an auxilliary verb and still is in US English. Its import back into the UK, after falling out of use here in most areas is as the present tense. Which is incorrect and which is why it jars to some ears.

@brokengoalposts

It's American slang and as I spent time in both the UK and the US education system, I picked up both lots. I rarely use slang but when I do I use it interchangeably.

It's not slang.

@SucculentChalice

WeBuiltThisBuffet Anybody claiming that is clearly ignorant of simple history, then. Shakespeare lived in England from 1564–1616 and the KJ Bible was published in England in 1611 - both using the word 'gotten' - 160 years before the USA was established.

Why do people on social media love to throw around insults of ignorance? The English language has changed since Shakespeare, thats the whole point!

New Amsterdam only became English speaking New York in 1674. Its easy to imagine why American English was more comfortable retaining "gotten" in its past tense usage for longer than British English.

That just shows that languages are not fixed with grammatical or spelling absolutes. That "gotten" is making a comeback in modern English after approximately 300 years is just part of it.

Neither is more correct than the other. Just one is more current than the other.

@brokengoalposts

It's American slang and as I spent time in both the UK and the US education system, I picked up both lots. I rarely use slang but when I do I use it interchangeably.

It's not slang.

It's one of the past tenses of the word 'get'.

Just like 'forgotten' is one of the past tenses of the word 'forget'.

Meh. I shudder every time I see AIBU or OP or any variation of DH, DD, DP etc.

Gotten is fine.

[quote RashofBees]@SalsaLove So your experience tells you that because I am not keen on certain - not all - usage of the word gotten, it’s because I as an individual am anti-American? I don’t accept that because it’s bollocks.[/quote]
My experience tells me that Americans don’t criticise the way other English speakers use the language. The English on the other hand freely and publicly make their feelings known, and in my 12 years in England I’ve never once met an English person who didn’t complain about Americanisms who actually liked Americans. American bashing, in the form of complaining about how we use the language is a great past time. But it’s also a dog whistle.

[quote PrettyVacancy]@OchonAgusOchonOh
Sure thing bud![/quote]
So you're multilingual after all?

It drives me mad. I took it up once with an American person. Thry said gotten is the correct form as it's old English. Strange how they don't use thee and thou.

@Viviennemary

It drives me mad. I took it up once with an American person. Thry said gotten is the correct form as it's old English. Strange how they don't use thee and thou.

Do you not see how staggeringly rude that is?

It's one of my pet hates. I mentioned it on a thread a few days ago. It's creeping into everything. It's in British books, newspaper articles etc. A few years ago I had never heard the word used.

@Sarahcoggles

YANBU, I really hate gotten. And people on here will go on about old English, and language evolving etc etc, but actually we all know it’s only become fashionable because of the trend of adopting Americanisms. Kids watch American stuff on YouTube and tiktok, and pick up the words. And then adults adopt it to try and look cool. And sadly, it gradually becomes accepted. But it will make me wince to my dying day!

Does anyone seriously think they "look cool" saying the word gotten. I highly doubt it and am laughing at the suggestion!!

I always advocate for "gotten" in these threads because my 89 year old grandma has always used this word. I'm just used to hearing it. I don't think it's in any way fashionable.

She also says "amn't I" which I very very rarely hear and someone on another thread wrote it today!