Gotten

[WinniePig]

I’ve noticed many Americans using the term “gotten” and assumed it’s American English. Fine. But it’s not a word I would associate with good grammar on this side of the pond. Anyway, I’ve read a number of threads on here recently where the OP has written “gotten” in their original post (and each time I see it I shudder). Even worse…the dodgy verb crops up in this news article on the BBC (third para from end). The BBC (holds head in hands).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-60789542

AIBU to despair at how this horrible little verb is infecting the English language…

Oh look, yet another thread about how those Americans are infiltrating the sacred English language. It's not like there are already dozens of them.

OH works for an American company and now says it all the time, I hate it!

@TheEarthIsNotFlat

Another Americanism which has crept in is ‘going shopping Tuesday’ No dear, it’s ‘going shopping ON Tuesday’. That one really winds me up.

I thought that was just lazy teenage speak It makes me twitch too.

@rainbowunicorn

Oh look, yet another thread about how those Americans are infiltrating the sacred English language. It's not like there are already dozens of them.

Yes, it's tedious isn't it? You'd think they'd have gotten over it by now.

Yes, it's tedious isn't it? You'd think they'd have gotten over it by now.

😂👏

I've closed the link I googled, but originally gotten was used in UK English, and a few hundred years ago there were pedants complaining about everyone using "got" in place of "gotten". Even in the USA, "gotten" became uncommon until the 19th century, when it started to revive.

While I suspected that "gotten" wasn't invented in the USA, and would have a history in UK English, my other suspicion, that it wasn't just an Americanism, was wrong. It really is almost entirely a USA thing, apparently.

But why do you care so much about what other people say? As pps have said it's not a new Americanism; it's a long established part of the English language. Language changes and evolves. It always has done. Unless you are talking like Shakespeare (who also used the word gotten). Maybe you should reflect on why a very inoffensive word makes you literally shudder... American English ≠ bad.

It gives me a clue to the nature of the person using the word. That’s all I’m saying …

When said by someone who’d never have uttered it ten years ago, I don’t like it either.

Saying language changes is a fact, but it doesn’t say anything about what that change means. Language is becoming more homogeneous, and I don’t celebrate that.

As previously mentioned, Pedants' Corner is the place to go with this sort of minor irritation. People use it a lot in NI. Perhaps we wouldn't incorporate it into anything official (Christ, we're not peasants after all, eh?), but it's hardly going to cause the earth to spin off its axis.

I can’t see “gotten” in that article.

While I suspected that "gotten" wasn't invented in the USA, and would have a history in UK English, my other suspicion, that it wasn't just an Americanism, was wrong. It really is almost entirely a USA thing, apparently

Have you read the thread? There are plenty of posters saying that it is common in Hiberno- English. It was certainly commonly used in the area of Scotland where I grew up.

@WeCouldBeSpearows

Why? I'm Scottish, but don't recognise it as something in common use in Scots. (East coast.)

It has been used in Scotland all of my life. So it's fair to say it's Scottish. I'm from the northern isles, where the kilt isn't a traditional garment, but just because it's not from my area, doesn't mean I would deny it's Scottishness

OK. I must have not noticed it somehow! Will listen out for it. I just thought it might be a West Coast thing, if I'd not heard it.

@Getoff

I've closed the link I googled, but originally gotten was used in UK English, and a few hundred years ago there were pedants complaining about everyone using "got" in place of "gotten". Even in the USA, "gotten" became uncommon until the 19th century, when it started to revive.

While I suspected that "gotten" wasn't invented in the USA, and would have a history in UK English, my other suspicion, that it wasn't just an Americanism, was wrong. It really is almost entirely a USA thing, apparently.

If it originated in U.K. English, it isn't just an Americanism, is it?

@PrettyVacancy

It gives me a clue to the nature of the person using the word. That’s all I’m saying …

Because everyone in Scotland and Northern Ireland that uses the word share the same kind of characteristics... 😂😂😂

@SundayTeatime

I can’t see “gotten” in that article.

Oh my goodness! Someone has gone it and “corrected” the article!

gone in

See, the BBC agrees with me.

It’s absolutely an Americanism when it comes to its current popularity in parts of the UK where it had died out. The explosion of this word over the last few years isn’t because there has been a revival of Shakespearean English or everyone has discovered a certain dialect. It’s because I’m the evenings we’re all watching Netflix and social media instead of tuning in to a limited number of tv channels showing mainly British programmes. Or should I say shows!

There are loads - I see terms like store, stroller and sneakers among others regularly on here from uk posters. It is fairly obvious to me that the differences between British and US English are being lost.

Forget, forgot, forgotten
Get, got, gotten

I’m not an English native speaker, this is how they teach those two verbs in my country, so I learnt them like that as a child. They’re irregular so you memorise the three columns and are told never to use the wrong form or you’ll face the rage of the British public

I know it annoys many people now after actually living in the UK, but to say ‘had got’ is just so, so wrong to me. The correct participle form in a recognised grammar publication will be ‘gotten’ so I always use that.

Don't say it then

@PrettyVacancy

It gives me a clue to the nature of the person using the word. That’s all I’m saying …

How small minded. I personally judge the nature of a person on their personality, not the fact they may speak differently to me. You should try it.

@EileenGC

Forget, forgot, forgotten Get, got, gotten

I’m not an English native speaker, this is how they teach those two verbs in my country, so I learnt them like that as a child. They’re irregular so you memorise the three columns and are told never to use the wrong form or you’ll face the rage of the British public

I know it annoys many people now after actually living in the UK, but to say ‘had got’ is just so, so wrong to me. The correct participle form in a recognised grammar publication will be ‘gotten’ so I always use that.

That’s really interesting. I wonder if the textbooks used were American.

How people speak is up to them. We have so many different regional quirks in our language, just from English spoken by native English speakers. Then we have the second language English speakers, or second, third generation immigrants' slight spin on the language. Its evolving constantly.
I suspect there is a form of snobbery in the original post.
The only thing I hate with a passion is the fashionable "can I get ...." to a server, with no please or thank you.

From my copy of the Authorised Version of the Bible, published by Collins, some time before 1980 I daresay:

Daniel 9:15
And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.

And before anyone points out that Collins are a a Scottish firm, the AV was produced by Englishmen.

AFAIK 'gotten' became archaic in British English during the 1800s although it survived in the Creeds.

I like it