Gotten

[WinniePig]

I’ve noticed many Americans using the term “gotten” and assumed it’s American English. Fine. But it’s not a word I would associate with good grammar on this side of the pond. Anyway, I’ve read a number of threads on here recently where the OP has written “gotten” in their original post (and each time I see it I shudder). Even worse…the dodgy verb crops up in this news article on the BBC (third para from end). The BBC (holds head in hands).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-60789542

AIBU to despair at how this horrible little verb is infecting the English language…

Nothing wrong with it.
American English is not better or worse than British English. And vice versa.
Use it or don’t use it. Your choice.

The purpose of language is to communication. You understand the meaning of “gotten”, so what is the problem?

YABU. I would never write it as it's poor English but I would definitely say it and I'm not sure it's not been said here. I'm sure where I grew up it was standard spoken English. Doesn't sound American to me at all.

@EileenGC - the book was clearly incorrect, though. Gotten wasn’t standard - in non-regional language, at least - until very recently in the UK. If the book was based on US usage or didn’t make any claims as to which flavour of English it was about, fine. But to say gotten is the correct past participle in ‘standard’ British English was just wrong. Probably not now, mind.

Shakespeare wrote the word "gotten" and it was commonly used in the England of his day. The word "ill-gotten" is a lone survivor from the time of Shakespeare.

It's not incorrect to use "gotten". It's more that the UK effectively stopped using it approximately 300 years ago.

But it's NOT an American invention either. "Wacko" to mean "weird" IS an American invention as a wacko in England was something you ate in Cornwall.

Gotten. I hate the way it sounds.

@IsFuzzyBeagMise

Yanbu. It's a feature of the English that I speak (Hiberno English).

I'm Irish and I don't say it, but it doesn't bother me at all

@WeCouldBeSpearows

Yes, it's tedious isn't it? You'd think they'd have gotten over it by now.

😂👏

I think “gotten” sounds better than “got” in a lot of cases. Like this.

[quote RashofBees]@EileenGC - the book was clearly incorrect, though. Gotten wasn’t standard - in non-regional language, at least - until very recently in the UK. If the book was based on US usage or didn’t make any claims as to which flavour of English it was about, fine. But to say gotten is the correct past participle in ‘standard’ British English was just wrong. Probably not now, mind.[/quote]
Gotten is correct in American English, though. And Americans produce English textbooks too. Do British-made textbooks say that they are teaching British English, or just English?

Forget, forgot, forgotten
Get, got, gotten

I’m not an English native speaker, this is how they teach those two verbs in my country, so I learnt them like that as a child. They’re irregular so you memorise the three columns and are told never to use the wrong form or you’ll face the rage of the British public grin

I know it annoys many people now after actually living in the UK, but to say ‘had got’ is just so, so wrong to me. The correct participle form in a recognised grammar publication will be ‘gotten’ so I always use that.

That’s really interesting. I wonder if the textbooks used were American

I imagine so, when I was teaching English as a foreign language many moons ago, gotten was not used as it was American English.

RashofBees,

Not entirely. I read somewhere that -ize is being replaced in British English with -ise because the further is seen as American (in fact British English has always had a mix).

(Fwiw I'm in NZ where 'butt' suddenly ousted 'bum' any about 5 years ago. Only old people say 'bum' now.)

FFS it's Old English!!!! It is English. It is not an Americanism.

It also has modern usage in Scots.

I really wish people who were going to be pedantic about things such as language were actually experts in language and not just people with a lack of education and a surfeit of opinion.

** sorry,messed up quoting/ bold!

It’s something I use, I’ve never really thought about it before, it’s just a word I use, not sure if others local to me use it but I wouldn’t be surprised. I’m in East Yorkshire.

YABU.

Gotten is standard spoken English, e.g. ‘gotten along in time’, ‘gotten away with it’.

@EileenGC

Forget, forgot, forgotten Get, got, gotten

I’m not an English native speaker, this is how they teach those two verbs in my country, so I learnt them like that as a child. They’re irregular so you memorise the three columns and are told never to use the wrong form or you’ll face the rage of the British public

I know it annoys many people now after actually living in the UK, but to say ‘had got’ is just so, so wrong to me. The correct participle form in a recognised grammar publication will be ‘gotten’ so I always use that.

AGree this is interesting.

When I read that list, Forget, forgot, forgotten, it seems like Forgotten is the odd one out because it's a verb. But I don't know for sure. I don't know the vocabulary around sentence construction as well as I should. Being a native speaker, I let myself be guided by what sounds right and 99% of the time that's fine.

So, would you say ''I had gotten my results the day before you''?
I feel like that doesn't jar massively, but I'd say ''I hadn't got my results by the time I needed to know''

It's a deep dive in to the verb to get!

@Alonelonelylonersbadidea

FFS it's Old English!!!! It is English. It is not an Americanism.

It also has modern usage in Scots.

I really wish people who were going to be pedantic about things such as language were actually experts in language and not just people with a lack of education and a surfeit of opinion.

I used to live in the west of Scotland and I don't remember hearing anyone saying gotten once.

Gallus on the other hand..

@Palavah

YABU

Its use in British English predates the colonisation of America, which is why it features in American English, though it subsequently fell out of favour in British English.

I came on to say this and here it is already. My fabulous DIL is American. She uses it because she's American. My son uses it sometimes because he is married to an American . Its not worth getting your knickers in a knot about.

@UniversalAunt

YABU.

Gotten is standard spoken English, e.g. ‘gotten along in time’, ‘gotten away with it’.

It’s definitely not standard spoken English in British English. It’s always got.

My late Mil, born 99 years ago, rural Berkshire, deeply averse to all things American, always used the word gotten. I suspect it's always been used in rural parts of the UK.
So yes, YABU.
Now if you'd objected to the use of ass, which everyone knows means a donkey, instead of good old English arse......

@SundayTeatime - that’s why I said it was fine if written as a US text. The poster suggested that she’d learnt gotten was the correct pp in Britain (comment about incurring the wrath of the British public) so either the book made incorrect statements about British English or it wasn’t actually a British English grammar at all.

I’ve studied languages which have differences in vocabulary and grammar across different countries so am familiar with textbooks and grammars being written for the different geographies.

Another Scot checking in here, definitely heard it as a Scottish word for years. Definitely not a new thing.

So, would you say ''I had gotten my results the day before you''?

No. I would say "I got my results the day before you", which has the same meaning and is less of a mouthful.

YAB Ridiculous. It’s an English word. Even if it was American, that’s no reason to shudder and compare it to a virus. Ditto Mom, another English word that induces sneery posts by untraveled people who imply that others watch far too much low brow television. Only 6 months until the Hallowe’en threads where it will again be pointed out that the whole of the UK does not live in, and draw their language and culture from, the South East of England.