DD4 left swimming lesson unsupervised

[swimdisaster]

My DD aged 4 left her swimming class and went to the toilet unsupervised. It was a new teacher who made no effort to let me know she needed to go (I was sat on other side of pool watching older DD). As soon as I saw she was not in her swimming group I rushed around and another parent had found her very distressed in the toilet by herself. The manager on duty took an account of what happened and I've followed up with an email. He said that someone would be in touch. I've booked my DC in at another centre in the same chain for lessons from next week. For completeness, when I raised it with the teacher (it was the teacher's first lesson) she said she was busy watching the other children and that I should have noticed. As soon as I saw DD missing from the lesson I panicked (as worried she'd gone under) so it must have been less than a minute she was alone.

What sort of response would you expect and AIBU by taking my children out of that centre?

@Sweetpeasaremadeofcheese

I think this one is on you as well. It's not the swimming instructors fault you chose to have two kids having different lessons at the same time, you chose to watch the older one rather than the one that needed you more and you could have taken her to the toilet beforehand to prevent this happening at all.

Agree with all this.

In all honesty I wouldn't expect much in response. There is a massive shortage of teachers so the pool won't want to loose one. You have removed your kids so are unlikely to make a big thing of it onsite which would cause them reputational issues. They've found you another slot so hope you will move away and that will be that.

At our pool your kid would have been got out of the pool and sent to the seating/window to attract your attention. We are all on 1 level though. If you weren't to be spotted a lifeguard or assistant teacher would have taken her and waited outside.

Why didn't your daughter come to get you, also if it was the instructor's first lesson how is she supposed to remember what parents belong to what child so they can wave to them? If your kid is so young that she can't even go to the toilet by herself then your eye's should be on her the whole lesson!

I'm not saying I'm not responsible at all, I'm asking what response you'd expect from the centre. I felt awful and I've already made other arrangements.

If another small child was to go missing or get hurt because their teacher said they couldn't watch the whole class then you'd expect the centre to blame the parents? The irony is I could swim with all three of my DC in the water within the safe ratios but what I'm hearing is that I need to watch them in their lesson 100% of the time because I can't expect the teacher to?

I'm actually struggling to see the issue here - ok, so the new teacher didn't do exactly what your old teacher would have done, but what she did do wasn't unsafe or unreasonable. The problem is DD didn't stay put where she was told, and just walked off, then got herself in a pickle alone in the loos for some reason. I can understand it was scary in the moment when you couldn't see her and then she was upset, but objectively I can't see this is the teacher's fault. If anyone is at fault, maybe it's the pool management for not having a clear consistent policy on what to do in this situation.

@SillyDoriswithaDangler she can go to the toilet by herself but normal protocol is the instructor gets the attention of the parent due to the layout I've mentioned.

@LittleOwl153 I've booked a different slot, they didn't do that.

I expect the instructor to keep them safe in the water absolutely but there's nothing they can do if the child walks off as they can't leave the pool. Surely the parents stay to keep an eye on their children and in case they need to leave the pool for any reason? Otherwise we'd just leave for the hour. Lifeguards also have to stay poolside at our pool in case needed, they can't go looking for parents for toilet trips. It's rubbish it happened but hopefully it won't happen again.

I think you have got yourself in this situation and the kids should not have lessons at the same time.

OP I don’t think this is your fault at all.

There was a post on here the other day about parents at poolside and the poster was told by the vast majority that it was the teacher’s responsibility to watch the kids and the parents should go and sit in the stands. On that post the majority opinion was that it’s the teacher’s job to know where her pupils are at all times, not the parent.

Also, for the PP saying it’s not up to a teacher if a young child doesn’t sit where they’re told. So on a school trip if a child wanders off then that’s not the responsibility of the school either? Or even in school - if a child slips out of a classroom and walks out of the gate, the teacher/school has no responsibility? Sorry, hard disagree.

No one said being a teacher is easy but if you’re looking after a group of kids it’s absolutely your responsibility to make sure you know where they are and that they’re safe. And doubly do if you’re a swimming teacher when you have little children around a hazardous environment.

I’d be absolutely fuming in your shoes OP. Not ok at all.

I really don’t understand why we make tiny children try to swim so young in a class like this. They need to either learn with parents in a safe 1 to 1 environment or wait until they’re of school age and are used to following instructions in a group scenario in a safe way. If a teacher is expected to watch multiple young children at once in the water, she shouldn’t be taking her eyes off the other children to get a parents attention.

@Summerfun54321 she is at school, she's turning 5 in the summer and can follow instructions fine (she didn't want to have an accident hence why she went). She's in a group with older children (maybe 5 turning 6) because we have done lots of 1:1 swimming already.

@SpidersAreShitheads thank you 🙏🏼 I thought I was going mad that so many people thought this was acceptable.

So on a school trip if a child wanders off then that’s not the responsibility of the school either? Or even in school - if a child slips out of a classroom and walks out of the gate, the teacher/school has no responsibility?

I think the difference is the teacher in that scenatio isn't in water that she can't leave because it would leave other children at risk. And there's no parents. It's just not comparable.
I think when the children leave the water, they're our responsibility.

@swimdisaster

I'm not saying I'm not responsible at all, I'm asking what response you'd expect from the centre. I felt awful and I've already made other arrangements.

If another small child was to go missing or get hurt because their teacher said they couldn't watch the whole class then you'd expect the centre to blame the parents? The irony is I could swim with all three of my DC in the water within the safe ratios but what I'm hearing is that I need to watch them in their lesson 100% of the time because I can't expect the teacher to?

I'm asking what response you'd expect from the centre. I think this could range widely.

I think you've done the right thing finding classes that will work better.

I would try to let it go a bit mentally, your DD was OK though the panicky feeling for you must have been horrible.

If your daughter walked off that quickly, it wouldn't have made any difference if the teacher had waved at you. You didn't see your daughter so you wouldn't have seen her waving.
If your daughter isn't able to obey instructions around the pool it might be best to defer lessons a while. Not your fault but maybe she isn't ready.

Agreed - if too young to follow instructions then needs 1:1 supervision.

I am confused by some posters saying if she's too young to follow instructions she shouldn't be in the class contradicting PPs saying she should have been fine to go to the loo alone at that age and didn't need to wait. I think this is what I want clarification on from the centre - I don't know the answer of what should have happened and it's not clear here either.

I will let it go @carefullycourageous it's just helpful to hear different views. Perhaps those being harsh and questioning the sequence of events and timings have been lucky enough not to realise their child was missing even for a minute or less (or more!)

I'd expect a generic sorry letter but nothing else. The teacher did the right thing, she got your child out and asked her to wait on the side, for all you know the instructor may have waved or been looking for you, you weren't paying attention and to your own reckoning you child waited less than a minute before walking off and taking herself to the toilet. I'm assuming your child could have waved for you or actually got out the pool before she was desperate so she could wait more than 1 minute to get your attention. If your child isn't capable to holding it till she's got your attention or going to the bathroom unsupervised then she's too young for you not to be fully watching her. Scary yes, difficult yes, your fault yes.

At our pool, during lessons, school aged children can get in and out of the pool (with permission) to go to the toilets (but lessons for children that young are only half and hour so they are expected to go beforehand). They just tell the teacher they need to go and go unsupervised - like in school.

Children with special needs or who are younger than school age need to be supervised constantly by a parent or guardian older than 16.

In this case it seems like you knew before the lesson that you daughter couldn't go to the toilets unsupervised and sometimes needs the toilet during the lesson. So I think it's your responsibility to watch her the whole time.

The pool staff have apologised to you and I wouldn't expect anything else. I don't think they were really in the wrong to be honest.

The swim teacher has done nothing wrong! Their job is to supervise the children in the pool to make sure they don’t drown. What did you expect would happen if you weren’t there? Four year olds need to go the loo before lessons plus it’s always a possibility they might need to go during. That’s your responsibility not theirs.

@CakesOfVersailles out of interest, are the toilets next to the pool and are they in a public area where people other than lesson parents have access?

@swimdisaster The toilets are by the pool, you have to go through the changing rooms to access them (except for the unisex disabled toilet which is poolside with no changing room).

So yes, any member of the public at the pool has access. They changing room are usually very busy with parents and children during lesson hours.

@libby09

So on a school trip if a child wanders off then that’s not the responsibility of the school either? Or even in school - if a child slips out of a classroom and walks out of the gate, the teacher/school has no responsibility?

I think the difference is the teacher in that scenatio isn't in water that she can't leave because it would leave other children at risk. And there's no parents. It's just not comparable.
I think when the children leave the water, they're our responsibility.

I think it's absolutely fair enough that the teacher can't leave the water because she needs to be there for the other children. So what's the procedure then? When you're teaching small children, this scenario must come up regularly and I think it's absolutely expected that the swim teacher would have a process for dealing with this.

I don't think telling a 4 yr old to sit on the side, turning her back on her and having absolutely no idea where she is can be considered an acceptable standard. Ever.

This isn't a difficult situation - why isn't there a process in place? Having 4 yr olds wandering around the leisure centre with no idea where they are is not safe. And 4 yr olds don't always do what they're told - for lots of reasons - so you can't say "ah well, it's her own fault she had a horrible accident because she didn't do what I told her to. Once I told her what to do, I have no responsibility to make sure she's ok - it's on her" . The child is only 4 years old for heavens sake!! You wouldn't apply that logic to any other situation where there's small children involved so I'm genuinely bemused that this is the logic here.

And again, sorry to bang on about this, but the other day, the posters were all very, very clearly saying that parents had no place on the poolside and needed to leave the teacher to manage the class, and that safety and the children's wellbeing during the lesson were down to the teacher. So which one is it? Parents can't be expected to hand over all control to the teacher if the teacher is able to shrug her shoulders and say she doesn't know where a child has gone because she was watching the others.

This is bloody awful. And OP, I think you've done absolutely the right thing in taking her out of the classes. I would have no trust left. And the consequences could be catastrophic.

My youngest DC is 10 so I barely pay any attention to what they are doing in the lesson now, but when they were 4 I would watch much more carefully in case they needed my attention. Also, the teacher told her to wait a minute and she went off by herself.

I taught swimming lessons for 8 years at two pools - one where the parents were right beside the pool and one where the parents were up in a balcony behind glass.

We had processes at both locations for kid needing toilets or other things. The pool where the parents are on deck has two toilet stalls right off the deck so we did send the little kids alone as we could see them go into the toilet and return. Often they had a parent near by but not all parents stayed by the pool so sometimes the child was on their own. One of the lifeguards would help them with the door if needed. At the pool with the parents in the balcony, we would bang our metal whistles on the metal pool railings and someone from the office would come out and take the child to the bathroom as they were a bit of a distance from the pool deck. Sometimes the parents in the balcony would see this happening and meet the child at the bathrooms. Little kids also often have a really hard time getting wet bathing suits back up and in place.