BIL charged indecent images. DH's favourite person

[LotinLife]

Need some advice on how to 1. Save our marriage 2. Whilst protecting our young children 3. Living with the fact that you're the only one that suspects.

So, BIL, who I've known for 15+ years and has always been a close relative. Knew him since he was a young teenager. My DH (older by 9+ years) loves him and has quoted on a number of occasions that he is his favourite person and has unconditional love for him. DH of course loves his children and they too are his favourite persons. Anyway, DH and BIL relationship is extremely close and has been commented on how close they are by all members of family and friends.

However, in the past year we were contacted by SS that he was charged with possession of indecent images and that he was to have no unsupervised visits with our children. Of course that came as a shock. SS apologised that in fact they should've contacted us earlier.
BIL hadn't told us anything.

But being a family we wanted to hear both sides (SS didn't go into the details). BIL broke down to DH via call and said that there was a couple of files to believed were found and he had no awareness of them because he had a large amount of neutral pornography all together. Now at the time I accepted this answer, if you had a couple of images out of thousands you could be innocent of not knowing they were there. We gave him the benefit of the doubt. we also understood why he didn't tell us and believe he was working up the courage to do so. I've know him since he was younger so I didn't suspect anything and I'll admit his is he abit of coward especially about tarnishing the image my DH has of him. We continue to back him up and allowed supervised visits.

Until the court charges were brought to light and the extent of the images. This was a year later. A couple of images (BIL said) turned into hundreds (plural) , all different categorises. He didn't me and my DH this was released but it was my FIL who said to us off handed. I read them and my heart fell. I also had questions, what does inaccessible mean etc? So those hundreds of images were inaccessible but a couple weren't and so I did a quick search and took the first answer that inaccessible meant the accused didn't have access to them... Which in our eyes matched the original story: that BIL didn't know they were there and how they got there. Again we believed him yet annoyed again he didn't inform us (so that we as a family could prepare to protect him).....
A month past since that revelation and I felt things didn't start to add up anymore.
2 files is not closer to a thousand files... Does inaccessible really mean that? There was no mention about malicious software to create those images out of thin air.... Surely the investigation team are the best to consider search results and parameters? How does someone even come across these?!
That's when I looked again at what inaccessible means and from definition it's simply that they were deleted or moved... But had left an imprint on the device, which the team can see what the file was and recover it. So unfortunately I dont know for sure if they were viewed before or simply deleted because they were mass deleted..... But again, that does not (in my opinion) equate to the original story.

I have now my suspicions. I worry for my children. I feel BIL, being the baby of the family, is grooming them all and that he could in fact groom my children when he is able (when his sentence is up/lifted).

My DH, I love him, but I have strong belief he will never believe my suspicions and quite frankly believe BIL is no threat.

I'm stuck in the position that it really is me against his family and he'll choose his family.

I've accepted that I may never convince him but then how can I ensure that BIL is not able to be a threat? If I divorce can I demand full custody to ensure they can not see BIL without supervision? Would that be guaranteed? Or should I maintain the marriage (which honestly was fine before this massive upheaval) but be that always vigilant hovering mother and manipulate events so that BIL is never alone with the children without offend DH. I know I would like to have the cut all ties off, but am I doing that to spite my face or, although more stressful and long term, be the one in control... Keep your friends close keep your enemies closer phrase comes to mind.

Still awaiting on BIL final sentence but if he's still allowed supervised visits am I able to anonymously ask SS to apply stricter rules without DH knowing so I can at least not have to start this vigilante/passive aggressive action to block BIL interaction immediately?

@Shtfday

The examples you mentioned are totally different. Suggesting that deaf people have impaired hearing or blind people have impaired sight is factual. But I don't think we'll ever come to an agreement and not interested in discussing it further and derailing this thread.

You are not allowing unsupervised access and you will make sure that on all occasions you will protect your dc from BIL. That is good.

Your DH is the love of your life. For me on the outside the way you describe your DH's reaction to what you have been told is bizarre, and either he doesn't understand how these images are produced, or his reaction has red flags all over it. In fact, I would say his reaction has red flags all over it. I think you may have a DH problem and you do need to be at least aware of it.

Sometimes young men come across these images and don't really understand what has gone on in the background. That there are organised darkweb sites where members are allowed access to images only when they post original images themselves. I was told that the victim wouldn't just be attacked once, but multiple times by multiple people. It is absolutely sickening and if your DH is aware or becomes aware and they want to minimise it, I would say that is a serious problem whether you like it or not.

Your DH may want to retain a relationship with BIL and that itself can apparently be a positive thing as it helps prevent reoffending, apparently, but I would have expected your DH to be shattered from the news, distraught, soul searching, looking back over times together to see if there were clues, wondering what the best thing to do is, going through various emotions. None of this happened, from what you say, and I think that that is worrying.

@gonetogroundnow

I think you're probably more likely to protect your children from inside your marriage, even if that is immediately at the detriment to your own happiness.

I think my line would be that if I walked away, i would have no actual control of who my children saw when with Ex DH, unless your BIL is behind bars which even in a worst case scenario would only be for a short number of years.

But if you're staying you need to actually protect your children from your BIL and stop them seeing him at all costs. I haven't rtft so I'm sorry if I've missed how old they are but is there an argument to educate them in an age appropriate way to their uncle?

100 percent agree with this. Once you have your head round the situation, and your DH's reaction, staying together is the best way of protecting your dc.

Its not your husbands fault and he will see the light very soon. I had a Mate who I really liked actually everyone liked him. He was kind, fun and always happy, caught abusing children. I wouldnt believe it, must be a mistake, had to be. Nope! he had been at it for years and years. Spoke to prison warden who said he heard him swooping stories in jail. Can't even say his name now.

These sort of decisions are not made lightly. Different categories relates to different levels of horrific. Your husband is in denial.

Do not allow your BIL any access to your DCs.

I am sorry your DH doesn’t appreciate the risk. Your BIL will not just ‘stop’.

I work for the police

@yeahthat

I also do not wish to derail the thread - but will make it clear that Deaf people do not consider ourselves impaired we consider ourselves complete, just a different language and culture to you. a culture that has through history been oppressed and abused because of our differences.
Impairment is medical term which no way reflects all that we have in our community you as a hearing person would be impaired but you are the same person just in a different environment.

@lotinlife
My apologies for derailing thread
I wish you the strength for the challenges ahead, i am sure your husband will soon realise that the children can no longer see his brother, but as others have said he is likely going through shock and processing everything. Social services in my experience are not as clear as they need to be when advising.

I’d be running with my dcs as fast as I could! Your dh’s reaction to this is a massive concern. Your absolute priority is to protect your vulnerable dcs.

@Stephthegreat she will have to allow her DH access to the children.

And if they're separated, she can't physically control who they are seeing when they are with him.

Why are so many people on here glossing over this?

My reaction to this situation is entirely primal. I would physically put myself in between any potential access with BIL, in fact because I couldn't trust my DH's judgement, I'd physically put myself between him and the children as well, at least whilst things are as they are. I would feel utterly helpless if I walked out and had to allow access without any control of who that access extended to.

I would also add that just because someone is convicted of child sex offences does not mean that they will be barred from contact with children in the family or that social services will offer you any guidance or support. You need to put your big girl pants on hear and sort out the safest thing for your dc.

I mentioned earlier that we have two family members who were convicted of sexual abuse of a child in the family (one was his daughter and the other was a niece). Neither were banned from contact with children (one was put on a sexual harm prevention order which banned him from staying overnight with a child in the house, that was it). In fact, we didn’t find out about either set of offences until they had many years of contact with our dc while on the sexual offender’s registry. Social services had no interest in what contact they had with children in the family and offered no guidance. The police were outright obstructive when I tried to put in a Sarah’s Law disclosure request and told me that the abusers’ rights to privacy trumped my right to know about the nature of their offences, even when they were close family members who had previously had close contact with my dc and other children in the family. The police safeguarding officer said there was nothing they could do for us. So do not bet on anyone stepping up but you. You have to be the rock that keeps your dc safe and well.

I unfortunately they let rapists have access to their kids. Your kids are safer with you in the marriage to guide them away from him if he’s not convicted and your dh keeps contact. If you split as someone else pointed out, your brother in law will likely have greater access to them and nothing will be done until it’s too late. I am so sorry you are in this situation.

Many years ago when these offenses first hit the mainstream social workers would go out and stop all contact with children.
But over the decades the numbers of these types of offenders have rocketed and successful court cases have limited the controls that can be placed around the offenders.
I wouldn't rely on social services to put your boundaries in for you.
I would say as a social worker specializing in child sexual abuse that you should put very strong boundaries in yourself.

I would go to Social services and try and get support/advice from them.

OP I'm so sorry you're going through this. I've been through something vaguely similar (best friend, but I've got no children) and felt torn honestly. However, as soon as I heard the details all of the emotions hit me very hard and all together.

Sorry if you've already mentioned and I've missed it, but do you know how the police came to be involved in the first place? With my friend, he lied about that and I later found out that he'd been speaking to teenage girls online and was reported by one of their parents.

I've been with this thread since the beginning and I've read every single post.

I'm becoming more and more concerned about the ops children. How many times have they been unsupervised with bil? If the husband is of the same 'ilk' then how many times have they both been in charge of the children? Of course then if that's a possibility, how many times has the husband had access to the kids alone... this is such a horrendous situation for the op and I really hope she's asking her children some appropriate questions.

I agree with some of the other posters that you're unfair in expecting social services to provide so much assistance. You need to be thinking this through for yourself and a grown man shouldn't allow his adulation of a sibling to endanger his children.

These children need told that Uncle Disgusting likes watching lots of children being hurt and because of that you and them won't be around him anymore. And ask them has Uncle Disgusting ever hurt you or made you feel uncomfortable.

With so much of the family playing it down that adds a greater risk to your children. Anyone who doesn't agree that Uncle Disgusting is a potential risk should never have soul charge of your children.

Please arm them with age appropriate information so that they have the heads up. Because if you don't they are going to grow up seeing this family all smiles and accepting of this uncle and if he hurts them they may not feel safe enough to tell.

Wow. What a horrible situation to find yourself in.

I have never heard of someone 'accidentally' being caught with indecent images of children; there must have been a reason why he got caught - maybe a search on his computer triggered something.

He may well appear to be lovely on the outside, but this goes beyond accusation. There is evidence, and you are not at all wrong to want to keep your children away from him. I appreciate that your husband adores his younger brother and is in denial, but even so, he must understand that SS have identified a risk and therefore he needs to put your childrens' well being first.

It isn't that great a sacrifice for your DH to agree that your kids are supervised, and quite frankly, you're being nicer about it than I would be. I would probably seek to ban all contact, so you're already compromising and your DH isn't meeting you half way.

Does he know that you are worrying about your marriage? Surely he'd not want to lose you over this. What has he said to you about it?

I'd suspect that if you got divorced, and I hope it doens't come to this, you can tell the courts about your BIL and they will say that the children must be supervised. It seems wasteful to throw away a happy marriage when the outcome - BIL supervision - is the same; there must be a way to make your husband to see sense. Perhaps seek legal advice and then sit down and speak with your husband again. x

In your shoes me n my kids would be gone

@CantStandMeCow

My feeling is that you’re more likely to keep your kids away from this man from inside your marriage.

I can see this too. Being open with kids. "Uncle viewed horrible pictures of children being hurt and he is not to be alone with children"

If u split up your h may want to PROVE he trusts his brother

Your dh needs to go to the sentence hearing. Either he's part of the problem or the fact that his brother enjoys watching children being raped hasn't sunk in yet... If he is going to maintain a attitude to his brother you disagree with the least he can do is agree to be at the hearing. Hopefully this will open his eyes.
I think your discussion meanwhile should be that he should keep the children away from bil and have his own superstructure relationship with him. If he resists that compromise I think you need to press for court order.
The children seeing the family approve of this man is a massive massive risk factor for them becoming easy prey.

@redambergreengo

Is there only me that has thought maybe your husband is more involved than he lets on or there's a reason they're so close.

Convicted or not. He's guilty. He has inappropriate thoughts and feelings for children. As the mother of a sexual abuse victim please protect your kids, it hurts less than the alternative believe me.

No, not just you. I thought the same from reading the OP.

I know this is a tough one but I just couldn't be with a man who supported someone over child abuse - even if it's his own brother. I'd disown my own brother. There are no shades of grey with the way I view child abuse even if it's looking at pictures. If I couldn't do that due to my mum, then I'd give him an extremely wide birth to seeing him just at weddings and funerals. Honestly it cuts deeper. I personally struggled with keeping the peace, keeping a lid on with my husband's family. I just couldn't see myself sitting at the same table for a Sunday roast with our kids there. And that's the struggle. It doesn't just stop with Op's brother and her DH. The entire family will really round, diminish responsibility and play down the seriousness of it all. It's anquish from here on in internally for OP as well as externally. I couldn't cope with any of that and said bye bye and left with my kids. What a breath of fresh air it felt and I have never ever once regretted it.

Will rally round not will really round I meant to say!

How old are your children