BIL charged indecent images. DH's favourite person

[LotinLife]

Need some advice on how to 1. Save our marriage 2. Whilst protecting our young children 3. Living with the fact that you're the only one that suspects.

So, BIL, who I've known for 15+ years and has always been a close relative. Knew him since he was a young teenager. My DH (older by 9+ years) loves him and has quoted on a number of occasions that he is his favourite person and has unconditional love for him. DH of course loves his children and they too are his favourite persons. Anyway, DH and BIL relationship is extremely close and has been commented on how close they are by all members of family and friends.

However, in the past year we were contacted by SS that he was charged with possession of indecent images and that he was to have no unsupervised visits with our children. Of course that came as a shock. SS apologised that in fact they should've contacted us earlier.
BIL hadn't told us anything.

But being a family we wanted to hear both sides (SS didn't go into the details). BIL broke down to DH via call and said that there was a couple of files to believed were found and he had no awareness of them because he had a large amount of neutral pornography all together. Now at the time I accepted this answer, if you had a couple of images out of thousands you could be innocent of not knowing they were there. We gave him the benefit of the doubt. we also understood why he didn't tell us and believe he was working up the courage to do so. I've know him since he was younger so I didn't suspect anything and I'll admit his is he abit of coward especially about tarnishing the image my DH has of him. We continue to back him up and allowed supervised visits.

Until the court charges were brought to light and the extent of the images. This was a year later. A couple of images (BIL said) turned into hundreds (plural) , all different categorises. He didn't me and my DH this was released but it was my FIL who said to us off handed. I read them and my heart fell. I also had questions, what does inaccessible mean etc? So those hundreds of images were inaccessible but a couple weren't and so I did a quick search and took the first answer that inaccessible meant the accused didn't have access to them... Which in our eyes matched the original story: that BIL didn't know they were there and how they got there. Again we believed him yet annoyed again he didn't inform us (so that we as a family could prepare to protect him).....
A month past since that revelation and I felt things didn't start to add up anymore.
2 files is not closer to a thousand files... Does inaccessible really mean that? There was no mention about malicious software to create those images out of thin air.... Surely the investigation team are the best to consider search results and parameters? How does someone even come across these?!
That's when I looked again at what inaccessible means and from definition it's simply that they were deleted or moved... But had left an imprint on the device, which the team can see what the file was and recover it. So unfortunately I dont know for sure if they were viewed before or simply deleted because they were mass deleted..... But again, that does not (in my opinion) equate to the original story.

I have now my suspicions. I worry for my children. I feel BIL, being the baby of the family, is grooming them all and that he could in fact groom my children when he is able (when his sentence is up/lifted).

My DH, I love him, but I have strong belief he will never believe my suspicions and quite frankly believe BIL is no threat.

I'm stuck in the position that it really is me against his family and he'll choose his family.

I've accepted that I may never convince him but then how can I ensure that BIL is not able to be a threat? If I divorce can I demand full custody to ensure they can not see BIL without supervision? Would that be guaranteed? Or should I maintain the marriage (which honestly was fine before this massive upheaval) but be that always vigilant hovering mother and manipulate events so that BIL is never alone with the children without offend DH. I know I would like to have the cut all ties off, but am I doing that to spite my face or, although more stressful and long term, be the one in control... Keep your friends close keep your enemies closer phrase comes to mind.

Still awaiting on BIL final sentence but if he's still allowed supervised visits am I able to anonymously ask SS to apply stricter rules without DH knowing so I can at least not have to start this vigilante/passive aggressive action to block BIL interaction immediately?

No one stumbles on child abuse images by mistake. You have to look pretty hard for that stuff

I suggest you liaise with social work very closely. Make them trust that you are concerned and want to protect the children. Ask their advice and follow it, and be seen to do so

@implantreplace

Decent grown-assed men aren’t “blinded by their love” for their brother

Decent frown assed women aren’t “blinded by their love” for their DH that they wouldn’t get the heck away from someone who could be blinded by their love for someone so despicable that poses a risk to their children

Simple. As. That.

I certainly wouldn't be leaving DH I'm this situation. I don't trust that I would be granted sole care and I would need to be there to make sure the children were not at risk.

I wouldn't trust dh in this situation to not allow his DB to see the kids in secret on his days looking after them and as DH is not the one on trial, I think he would be granted unsupervised access if they were to divorce.

YANBU. I would not let a nonce within spitting distance of my children. Once the court case is over and he's on the sex offenders register your husband surely wouldn't be stupid/irresponsible/dickish enough to suggest letting a paedophile near his children.

Someone upthread suggested staying in your marriage as the best way of protecting your children, because if you separate, your children will spend time with their dad without you, and right now, you can't trust him to keep them safe. I agree with this.

I would make sure your children know they do not have to spend time with Uncle Disgusting. If granny tries to get them to spend time with Uncle Disgusting, or he says or does anything that makes them feel 'funny' or upset, they are to tell you AT ONCE.

I would be strongly tempted to look my BIL straight in the eyes, tell him you know what he did and you know what he is, and if you see him looking twice at your children, or indeed any children in the family, you will be contacting his Community Offender Manager, and telling her what he is up to.
I would not attend any more family things if I knew BIL was going to be there, but this is preparing yourself and your children for a situation that may well arise.

@LotinLife

I've put in a request to the court/police for the details of the case so that I can have at least the evidence first hand rather than through the BIL.

I'll see what they come back with, I may use it to approach DH to help identify the risks.

Did BIL plead guilty and is now awaiting sentencing, or did he plead innocent and is now awaiting trial? I would want to know in detail what is accused of and his plea.

I would also want to attend the trial if there were to be one.

@notanothertakeaway

No one stumbles on child abuse images by mistake. You have to look pretty hard for that stuff

I suggest you liaise with social work very closely. Make them trust that you are concerned and want to protect the children. Ask their advice and follow it, and be seen to do so

Actually that is sadly not true.

I have seen 1 on Google images once that looked like a child (boy). I reported it through a website. But they are out there are they aren't all hidden.

Saved to a computer though? Nah that doesn't happen by mistake. When I reported that image, I put the URL in that took you directly to the image. I can't imagine any police force asking you to save and send the picture when making a report. So that excuse is out!

This is on the one hand very hard for you but also should be quite an easy decision. As others have said you and DH need to be on the same page. Your absolute priority is to protect DC

You need to know the facts around the charges and what is said in court. All the evidence, everything. It is highly unlikely that you will get this from BIL or family.

Your husband needs to be encouraged to go to the court hearing, to "support" his brother. So he can hear all of the gory details, hopefully those Rose tinted glasses will slip. Hearing everything will hopefully make him think- ah so there's little truth in x y and z which he told me.

I'd also encourage you to go to the court hearing- also to "support" you are armed with all information then.

Also, be in contact with social services. Tell them you don't think your husband will protect the children from his brother given his denial. Ask for their support. Can they be seen to make things stricter? Because if you are the one to do it, your marriage may not survive and at that point you have NO power to stop the access to the children from the brother.

I'm so sorry you're in this position

@maddy68

well this was my line of work for a long time so.....

what is it with mumsnet that if you don't automatically leap to a conclusion based on hearsay then you are wrong ?
at no point have I justified a paedophile

IF he is convicted of indecent images of children he would not be allowed unsupervised access to your children, anyway so its a moot point

If you read my earlier post you will see this is NOT a given. Please don't rely on it being 'taken out of your hands' op you need to act now to protect your children as your DH and his family are either in denial or minimising and therefore not in a position to keep your children safe

OP if social services called you and said your child's teacher was being investigated would you be happy for them to teach your children supervised as he told the school it was only 1 image on his PC and he had no idea how it got there?

You need to tell your children in an age appropriate way for them what uncle has done and why they cannot see him ever again don't minimise this, this uncle is a predator and you letting him see your children tells them he is ok and can be trusted. Pull yourself together and imagine him as someone you don't know/are related to it's bonkers you let him anywhere near them even supervised

The man has been convicted. He is awaiting sentencing. I don't get all the angst and hair splitting here, and quite honestly I think OP needs a big wake up call, right now.

I cannot believe that there is any question of access by BIL to the kids, none, and it shouldn't even be an issue. BIL convicted of child porn access? No contact ever again. Why is OP wringing her hands? The DH is the problem here. Divided loyalties and they should be totally united. Should be no question of that at all. How awful to think that the parents are not on the same page when their children are at risk. I honestly cannot believe it.

But.... as others have said accepting the truth of a situation is often difficult. I am sorry OP but I have severe doubts about both you and your husband. NO MORE contact with kids should not even need discussion, it should be a fact.

No wonder some of these perverts continue to offend and destroy children's lives. I am so angry.

@TheRealityCheque

Woooah. Just take a step back here everyone.

I've seen the phrases: peadophile, child abuse, and nonce used in this thread and yet nowhere in the OP does it say "indecent images OF CHILDREN"

Can the OP confirm what he's actually charged with as there's plenty of images of consenting adults (Hardcore BDSM for example) that can be illegal due to being "indecent". In fact there's plenty of things that it's perfectly legal for adults to do to each other that it's legal to own an image of (indecent).

Can we get clarification as to what the actual charge is here?

What do you think the SS are coming around warning OP to not let the kids around this filthbag for? Do you think it’s regular porn? What else could it be?

OP if your husband knows all this and still wants to stand by him, I would be very worried, I would not stay married to a man that stuck by someone that looked at these things.
I wouldn’t stick my my own child if they did that, let alone a brother, if your DH thinks that’s nothing is wrong here then I would be seriously worried.

It would be easier to stay married and police this yourself but I’m sure if it came to court, they would see the dangers too.

FIL obviously believe it that’s why he dropped it like it’s hot, he wanted his grand babies safe, please take the hint, he probably knows more that what you do.

Hopefully your DH will realise the severity of the situation once BIL is sentenced, until then I'd just do everything in your power to keep your kids away from BIL, supervised or not. If your DH doesn't categorically agree that BIL needs to be kept away from them, then you do have an issue. If you find yourself in this situation, I'd seek help from SS, protecting children is their job. If you think your children are at risk, tell them you want to leave and ask them to help you keep them safe. Hopefully it won't come to that, your DH will surely realise that he can't put his children at risk, or risk the consequences if he breaks SS's orders. Good luck.

@Myee

The man has been convicted. He is awaiting sentencing. I don't get all the angst and hair splitting here, and quite honestly I think OP needs a big wake up call, right now.

I cannot believe that there is any question of access by BIL to the kids, none, and it shouldn't even be an issue. BIL convicted of child porn access? No contact ever again. Why is OP wringing her hands? The DH is the problem here. Divided loyalties and they should be totally united. Should be no question of that at all. How awful to think that the parents are not on the same page when their children are at risk. I honestly cannot believe it.

But.... as others have said accepting the truth of a situation is often difficult. I am sorry OP but I have severe doubts about both you and your husband. NO MORE contact with kids should not even need discussion, it should be a fact.

No wonder some of these perverts continue to offend and destroy children's lives. I am so angry.

I absolutely agree with you. It's made me angry reading this, the OP is part of the problem and has been going along with BIL excuses for quite some time and still allowing supervised contact now he is a convicted child sex offender. Why aren't more people calling OP on their bullshit and lack of safeguarding and basic decency towards their own children? The mind boggles.

Also if your DH is happy to divorce you for protecting his kids then he’s not the one. If he’s willing to put his family before you and your family anyway it’s not good is it?

What will happen to your children if you die or are severely disabled? If something happened to you tomorrow, your husband has full custody and there is no one cautioning him about BIL.

Please document your husband's behavior and comments and share this with ALL the people YOU trust and who prioritize your children over your husband's feelings - your parents, your siblings, your extended family, your close friends, their teachers and SS. I'd also tell a trusted neighbor so they can watch for BIL. While I agree with PP that you can best protect your children from within your marriage, if you pass or become incapacitated, someone other than your husband and his family needs to know the full extent of your BIL's crimes. The police and SS can only do so much. You need a community of defense.

If you or husband won't go to the trial/sentencing, please send someone YOU trust who can document this and protect your children in case you can't. I hope your husband comes around. His children will never forgive him if he doesn't.

The relative in my post was in a house with 4 adults present and still managed to abuse...

I think you can get transcripts of trials online after the trial. You may have to pay though and they could be redacted. You really need to go yourself and access the situation.

assess not access apologies!

OP, please do not allow him even supervised visits with your children, as it sounds like he is quite a charismatic person and ideally suited to groom them.

As for you DH, can you not get him to read the testimonies of victims of child sexual abuse so that he realises quite what he is exposing his children to?

Some people on this thread have mentioned the later consequences for those victims.

The son of a friend of mine was abused and is now a drug addict, virtually living on the streets.

@cuno I think posters are calling out the bullshit, which is why OP has stopped responding. My only hope is that some of the advice she's been given helps her find the courage to sever ties with her BIL, and anyone else who tries to protect him.

I just can't understand why their initial response was to assume he wasn't bullshitting with his excuses and worry about how to 'protect' him! Honestly, I think I have to hide the thread as it's making me so angry.

@Tonkerbea

I feel the same.

@Coyoacan

OP, please do not allow him even supervised visits with your children, as it sounds like he is quite a charismatic person and ideally suited to groom them.

As for you DH, can you not get him to read the testimonies of victims of child sexual abuse so that he realises quite what he is exposing his children to?

Some people on this thread have mentioned the later consequences for those victims.

The son of a friend of mine was abused and is now a drug addict, virtually living on the streets.

If a loving father needs convincing that his children need protecting from a convicted paedophile, he is just as guilty. Parental responsibility and instinct should mean that no convincing is necessary at all, absolutely NO contact should be the immediate response.

This pandering to the parents needs to stop right now. They need to be REAL parents and not surrogates to the BIL.

In your situation BIL would never see my DC supervised or not. I would not let him have assess to pictures of the DC. I would not let in laws etc have children without being there unless I was sure they understood my wishes.

I think your husband needs to very quickly accept his brother is a paedophile and a risk to children.

I do think that someone somewhere in the history of internet probably downloaded some things they probably didn't mean to, and immediately deleted them upon discovery. even believing that it is extremely marginally possible I'm still not thinking that it's an acceptable risk to take to allow this person to be around children. Especially as it's made it to court and been the subject of a presumably pretty large investigation