BIL charged indecent images. DH's favourite person

[LotinLife]

Need some advice on how to 1. Save our marriage 2. Whilst protecting our young children 3. Living with the fact that you're the only one that suspects.

So, BIL, who I've known for 15+ years and has always been a close relative. Knew him since he was a young teenager. My DH (older by 9+ years) loves him and has quoted on a number of occasions that he is his favourite person and has unconditional love for him. DH of course loves his children and they too are his favourite persons. Anyway, DH and BIL relationship is extremely close and has been commented on how close they are by all members of family and friends.

However, in the past year we were contacted by SS that he was charged with possession of indecent images and that he was to have no unsupervised visits with our children. Of course that came as a shock. SS apologised that in fact they should've contacted us earlier.
BIL hadn't told us anything.

But being a family we wanted to hear both sides (SS didn't go into the details). BIL broke down to DH via call and said that there was a couple of files to believed were found and he had no awareness of them because he had a large amount of neutral pornography all together. Now at the time I accepted this answer, if you had a couple of images out of thousands you could be innocent of not knowing they were there. We gave him the benefit of the doubt. we also understood why he didn't tell us and believe he was working up the courage to do so. I've know him since he was younger so I didn't suspect anything and I'll admit his is he abit of coward especially about tarnishing the image my DH has of him. We continue to back him up and allowed supervised visits.

Until the court charges were brought to light and the extent of the images. This was a year later. A couple of images (BIL said) turned into hundreds (plural) , all different categorises. He didn't me and my DH this was released but it was my FIL who said to us off handed. I read them and my heart fell. I also had questions, what does inaccessible mean etc? So those hundreds of images were inaccessible but a couple weren't and so I did a quick search and took the first answer that inaccessible meant the accused didn't have access to them... Which in our eyes matched the original story: that BIL didn't know they were there and how they got there. Again we believed him yet annoyed again he didn't inform us (so that we as a family could prepare to protect him).....
A month past since that revelation and I felt things didn't start to add up anymore.
2 files is not closer to a thousand files... Does inaccessible really mean that? There was no mention about malicious software to create those images out of thin air.... Surely the investigation team are the best to consider search results and parameters? How does someone even come across these?!
That's when I looked again at what inaccessible means and from definition it's simply that they were deleted or moved... But had left an imprint on the device, which the team can see what the file was and recover it. So unfortunately I dont know for sure if they were viewed before or simply deleted because they were mass deleted..... But again, that does not (in my opinion) equate to the original story.

I have now my suspicions. I worry for my children. I feel BIL, being the baby of the family, is grooming them all and that he could in fact groom my children when he is able (when his sentence is up/lifted).

My DH, I love him, but I have strong belief he will never believe my suspicions and quite frankly believe BIL is no threat.

I'm stuck in the position that it really is me against his family and he'll choose his family.

I've accepted that I may never convince him but then how can I ensure that BIL is not able to be a threat? If I divorce can I demand full custody to ensure they can not see BIL without supervision? Would that be guaranteed? Or should I maintain the marriage (which honestly was fine before this massive upheaval) but be that always vigilant hovering mother and manipulate events so that BIL is never alone with the children without offend DH. I know I would like to have the cut all ties off, but am I doing that to spite my face or, although more stressful and long term, be the one in control... Keep your friends close keep your enemies closer phrase comes to mind.

Still awaiting on BIL final sentence but if he's still allowed supervised visits am I able to anonymously ask SS to apply stricter rules without DH knowing so I can at least not have to start this vigilante/passive aggressive action to block BIL interaction immediately?

I'd simply be telling dh that there will be NO seeing bil whatsoever. Child abuse images, especially in the thousands don't just appear they have to be sought out. I'd be looking up victim statements and showing dh the horrific trauma child sex abuse inflicts. If he insists on divorce then fine but he is unable to see the children until you go to court for access and then you can mention bil and preventing him access while the children are in dh care. You are blessed with a warning, like pps many children or parents will not get that so do not take that lightly.

Ex detective here. Do not let this man anywhere near your children. If its his first offence he may get some kind of community order(probation). Yes it will include contact with kids but that means unsupervised. You have already gone through ss and have a plan in place ie . Supervision but in my eyes this is not enough.
What worries me most about this is the fact that on everyones mind he seems wonderful, which heightens that risk immensely. Protect your children - i would not let him through my door before he creates opportunities to be around your kids

@Skiptheheartsandflowers

The bond between the two men just sounds fucking weird.

Can I ask again OP, what led to his computer being searched in the first place? Sorry if I've missed it, but this would be triggered by something in the first instance - perhaps something your DH can't ignore so easily?

The "love of your life" is weirdly choosing his brother in law? If I'm reading this right? Not even his brother?
Some men are weirdly loyal - their mates could be convicted of rape and they'd still say "XX is a good guy,though..."
I'd be getting a liaison officer to come round and explain the seriousness of this to him
What are your OWN family saying? Are they not horrified you even kept in contact?
Put the foot down- you gave the benefit of the doubt, and now there's been "more to the story". Listen to your gut. Your DH? Well if he seriously wants to keep in contact with him - I'd be wondering WHY?
How would you explain to your children if something happened and you were warned?
Hugs.

My first thought is it sounds like he has groomed your DH. These people really are insidious bastards.

I think it's important to tell your DH that you are not restricting his relationship with his brother in that he can see him as often as he wants outside of the house without the children but that you cannot allow any contact with your children.

I believe you do have their best interests at heart, it's just you don't know how to navigate this issue because you don't have sole parental responsibility.

[quote Yeahthat]@Skiptheheartsandflowers

The bond between the two men just sounds fucking weird.[/quote]
Ok. I haven't read the whole thread so may have missed some of the details of that.

Op, can you please confirm - is your DH actually a sibling to BIL?

If that is not his brother, the loyalty to someone with CP is baffling.

@Skiptheheartsandflowers

Love can also be equal but very different between a wife and a sibling (from husband perspective)

But what about his love for his kids? I do see that the sibling bond is strong, and I get what you're saying about that v his relationship with you. But for many people, love for their children trumps everything. DH and I would throw each other - and siblings - under the bus to save the DC. Would he put his brother ahead of the risk of losing his own kids?

Absolutely all of this, how on earth can he know what his brother has done and still want to spend time with him?!

@ClitorisAllsorts

The ‘lesser evil’ is keeping your children safe no matter the consequences. I cannot believe you are questioning this!

But she has a very valid point of worry Allsorts. If she goes for divorce she cannot control when/ where/who the children see when with her ex.

It is a very tricky situation and I see the OP as very smart to look around corners like this.

@SlightlyJaded

Can I ask again OP, what led to his computer being searched in the first place? Sorry if I've missed it, but this would be triggered by something in the first instance - perhaps something your DH can't ignore so easily?

Also this. They didn't just do a random search.

Maybe he was trying to make contact with a minor, but the image charges were the ones they had enough evidence for.

@RollerGirl7

OP - my ex-BIL was on the sex offenders register for something worse.

My ex didn't spend much time with him and wasn't fighting for him to see our DS but when me and ex split up I contacted social services just to confirm that they would re-iterate to ex that BIL wouldn't have any contact. Didn't stop it happening at things like family events, Christmases etc and when I've contacted social services about it they weren't bothered as it wasnt unsupervised and a solicitor advised there was no point taking it to court as it wasn't so bad of my ex as to give me sole custody

This is exactly why she has posted on here for advice…

I agree OP that staying in your marriage will probably protect your kids better than SS/ law can. Especially since you still love your husband (and assuming this situation doesn’t drive too big of a wedge between you).

Terrible for you though 💐

OP, you need to do everythng in your power to get to that hearing, and your DH needs to go too and hear what the evidence is against his brother.

I can't imagine what you are going through right now, I'd be worried sick he had done anything to my DC if hes ever been unsupervised with them before.

I also am struggling to understand your DH minimising the whole thing. I get perhaps shock of finding out, but its not like he has only just found out in the last few hours, this has been over a long time. And he is still minimising it and defending his brother.

I know you said your DH would never ever do anything like this. But in your OP you also said that about BIL to the point everyone thinks he is innocent still, despite there being thousands of images of all catergories on his PC. These are not accidental, which you know.

You do need to have a huge talk with your DH to understand how he is still minimising all this. Did he actually say to you he'd rather divorce than go against his brother? What a horrendous situation for you. I think him being in court would certainly point out a few facts for him if he is really that blinkered with love for his brother. If he still minimises it after that I think the safest thing for your DC would be to divorce and put in as many legal barriers as you can so the dc have zero contact with this BIL, and I'd be seriously conflicted about my DH having contact tbh if his views were the same as your DH's appear to be.

@Skiptheheartsandflowers no. Lots of posters first instinct that there has been grooming or at least manipulation of the younger brother by the older one.

Paedophiles are manipulative which means some people, particularly those who are close family members and even their own spouse, are in denial about their behaviour and don't believe the victims.

Dont let your husband bully you about divorce. Do what's best for your children (NO CONTACT WITH BIL) and let the cards fall where they may.

I'd rather say to my child that I did everything possible to keep you away from a predator. Even got a divorce. The fact your dad took you to see him and the worst happened was all on him. I'd respect you as a mum.

Hi OP.
I am sorry you are going through this, truly.
Can I ask why your BIL is having formal, supervised access to your children?
Or is this informal, "him popping in for a brew" and trying not to break the terms of his bail?

I've read your posts OP

Your BIL has downplayed what he has been charged with and the extent of evidence against him for storage of child sexual abuse photos- the criminal offence is for under 18s. And it is worse the younger the minor child is.

So- you are absolutely right to follow Children services instructions for supervised/ no contact with BIL to your minor DCs. Regardless of what BILnor anyone else says or you will and DH will be facing s47 child safeguarding investigation about your parenting/ failure to protect from harm- which ot course you have taken seriously and are not doing.

You can ring children services duty worker to ask more and say how seriously you've taken it are following instructions given before but also in light of progression what else would they recommend as you really want to take additional safety measures. They may be able to refer you on to specialist advisory services or advise you more over the telephone from duty. It's ok to check and say @I've done everything that stick call told me when we were in shock but I want to know more that we can do to protect our DCs" .

@Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns

The "love of your life" is weirdly choosing his brother in law? If I'm reading this right? Not even his brother? Some men are weirdly loyal - their mates could be convicted of rape and they'd still say "XX is a good guy,though..." I'd be getting a liaison officer to come round and explain the seriousness of this to him What are your OWN family saying? Are they not horrified you even kept in contact? Put the foot down- you gave the benefit of the doubt, and now there's been "more to the story". Listen to your gut. Your DH? Well if he seriously wants to keep in contact with him - I'd be wondering WHY? How would you explain to your children if something happened and you were warned? Hugs.

It is his brother. The OPs brother-in-law

@zafferana

How old are your DC OP? I was told about creepy uncle when I was about 8 and I understood what my DM was talking about. There are age-appropriate ways to speak to DC about grooming/paedophilia.

Aside from that, I would do whatever you have to to keep your DC safe. If your DH is not prepared to do this, then he's a disgrace.

I noticed when you discussed his favourite people too that you included BIL and your DC. What about you?

I agree. Depending on your kids age then you need to also be giving them the tools to protect themselves as well as you protecting them. Because it doesn’t sound like their dad will. Tell them they have a creepy uncle who they must never be on their own with or keep secrets with. If your dh doesn’t like that then bad luck.

@Malibuismysecrethome

My first thought is it sounds like he has groomed your DH. These people really are insidious bastards.

Her DH is 9 years older than BIL so sounds unlikely to be this way round..

@LotinLife I would move heaven and earth to get to the court appearance/sentencing. Stuff will come out in court that you wouldn't know.

In a former life I was a court/newspaper reporter. Lots of details come out of court appearances which never make the paper in order to protect the innocent party (especially in cases like this)

You need to be there.

I am a victim of familial CSA, our case never went to court, we didn't disclose until we were adults and went no contact with the perpetrator (and some of us with each other ) I know what a shock like this can and will do to your family. But you owe it to yourself and your kids to attend that court case.

Whatever you do, do not say that either you or DH are planning any heavily supervised contact ever with your Dcs. And make sure that is real.

You have to wait for court case outcome and decision

But any social worker that has any hints you or DH are not taking it seriously to protect your DCs and following rules - though your DCs are not involved in the actual offence but they are minor children BIL potentially has access to- / will raise a s.47 abuse risk safeguarding concern process about your DCs bc of your BILs alleged criminal offences. Your DH needs to understand that.

Are planning anything OTHER than heavily supervised contact if any with your DCs is what I meant to type!! Sorry - unfortunate mistype

@LotinLife Please have stated that I can go to the hearing.
Unfortunately that isn't possible (due to travel)

I might be missing something here, but if you're worried about the children having contact with BIL through your H if you divorce, surely he can't live that far away? How can 'travel' be an issue? Ok, you might have to take annual leave (or ask for unpaid) but hopefully knowledge and your DC's safety is more valuable to you.

So I really would urge you, and your H to attend the trial. He, especially, needs to hear it all. I'm afraid I'm with a lot of other pp - you do seem to be sticking your head in the sand to a certain extent (which is understandable - I've had this issue in my extended family, but unlike you, it didn't affect us or our children due to the years gone by).

But if I had been in your shoes, and if it was happening in my lifetime, and when my DC were small, I would move heaven and earth to make myself available for the trial. And my DH wouldn't have said otherwise either.

Some people minimise images, “it was just images, he wasn’t actually assaulting or raping children” type of thing. Images are raping to order though, essentially. The market fuels the abuse, rapes and murders of children.
Your brother in law is directly responsible for this. Your husband is shoring him up and by the sound of it allowing him into your house ?
I could not live with a man who refused to act on something like this. Your bil should never be anywhere near your children.
What is your DH saying ? You can love a younger sibling in a protective way, but he is a grown man and your DH needs to be a father.
Have you asked your DH WHY he is minimising this ? It is very weird.