To say that buying a puppy is NOT like having a baby.

[annoyedfr]

After TTC, 9 months of a difficult pregnancy, a traumatic 48 hour labour which ended with me having sepsis and baby in SCBU, 2 weeks inpatient stay, 2 years of developmental worries, all this on top of the entirely normal unbelievable stress/responsibility/cost of having a baby and child ... WIBU to tell my (wonderful but in this instance thoughtless) friend that getting a puppy is not like having a baby? Because she has not suffered birth injuries to have her 'child', a dog is not a lifelong commitment in any sort of the same way as a baby (if it were as ill as my daughter they probably would have put it down tbh rather than watch it so ill for so long and wonder if it would live and if so what quality of life it would have), and dogs do not need anywhere the sort of attention and input as an actual human child?

I didn't bite the first time she said it. I bit the third time.

It's not the only time I've heard it and it's become a bit of a bugbear.

AIBU?

But it IS offensive to some mothers that’s the point, if you’ve had a traumatic delivery (that clealry impacts on your newborn experience)/ has a baby in the NICU/ had a baby with health problems/ baby that became jaundiced/ struggled with feeding/ had a baby that just didn’t sleep/ suffered with severe pnd.

For a straight forward newborn then yeah it’s still not the most linear comparison but yeah I see it but for someone like OP, myself and many other women who’ve not had a straight run at it, it is an offensive comparison.

Now don’t get me wrong I actually think the way to think before getting a puppy is along the lines of they are like an extra child, but if you know someone has struggled, like OPs friend does, then it’s a thoughtless and insensitive comparison to make

People that honestly think that puppy = fur child have no idea about the parenthood. It is much more than being able/unable to leave your house when you want or staying up all night. And as someone said upthread - it is offensive to mothers.

But then it’s offensive to me to be offended by something that wasn’t involved in the comparison - pregnancy, birth, ICU etc.

And if this woman can’t have kids, it’s super thoughtless and insensitive to make a thing of it.

The article sums up an opinion already shared in this thread, which is already established as not a universal one.

And what’s the alternative to ‘agreeing to differ’? Telling someone they’re wrong isn’t going to make them agree with you, and it’s not going to make anyone say, think, or feel anything different.

It’s offensive to some parents. Okay. And? No one has the right to not be offended. It’s on you to cope with it.

@mam0918

It's something I will never understand... a pet is nothing like having a child.

You can rehome a pet, they only live a short time, you can lock them in a room with food, water, and the radio on and go out for hours with your friends, etc... it's in NO WAY comparable to the hard work and sacrifice of children.

On the flip side, dogs for instance live in a perpetual state of having a 3-year-old mentality, so it is half like having a toddler.

While they aren't as hard to care for because how you care for them far more lapsed (SS aren't going to take your dog if you go to work and leave it home alone) they do forever act like toddlers when they destroy things, don't talk, run around like nutters, need their shit cleaning and never gain self-sufficiency.

That's why I'm always baffled by my 'childfree by choice' friends all having 'fur babies'.

They claim they don't have kids because they are 'too selfish' but you just give yourself a pre-schooler to look after for 12-16 bloody years the only plus is you can put it in a crate or if you really must drop it at the shelter (and that's the crux of it really, it's not being too selfish it's a lack of true commitment to see it through and knowing you have the option to bail).

I'd much rather go through a hard time of having a baby and watch it blossom into a great self-sufficient person who I cant chat to and watch their long life journey until my death (which is how most child-rearing goes).

Rather that than pick up the shit from a drooling slowly deteriorating furball that limits my ability to have a free and spontaneous life for a decade and a half then being sad when I inevitably have to make the choice to kill it because it has no quality of life left.

That’s the thing though, you don’t have to understand. I mean, it genuinely does help to have a base understanding that different people have different preferences, desires and priorities, but of course you don’t ‘need’ to have that.

I don’t have children, not because I’m too selfish, but because I don’t want them. I’m not maternal and there’s nothing about childbearing and rearing that I consider to be an attractive proposition. I have animals though, and I’m quite happy with sacrificing for them. I can respect that this is alien to a lot of people, and that’s fine. My choices don’t validate their, but neither do theirs invalidate mine.

@TatianaBis

But then it’s offensive to me to be offended by something that wasn’t involved in the comparison - pregnancy, birth, ICU etc.

And if this woman can’t have kids, it’s super thoughtless and insensitive to make a thing of it.

Exactly. People are coming along now trying to make out that the friend said that a child and a puppy are exactly the same thing when what she actually said was having a puppy is LIKE have a child, clearly meaning I have a lot of looking after/cleaning up after/getting woken up happening.

@TatianaBis

But then it’s offensive to me to be offended by something that wasn’t involved in the comparison - pregnancy, birth, ICU etc.

And if this woman can’t have kids, it’s super thoughtless and insensitive to make a thing of it.

But OP did have a tough time didn’t she, it seems as though she doesn’t like the direct comparison between her experience which was a tough one and that of getting a dog. That seems to be the trend with people who are saying they don’t like the comparison, they’ve had significant difficulties in one way or another that’s either affected them or their DC and as a result the comparison to them seems like it’s dismissive. It seems not the be the general vague comparison that dog = huge responsibility somewhat similar to a child, but the direct ‘I’m really struggling with my child because of xyz quite serious circumstances’ for it to be met with oh ‘yeah that was the same as when I got my puppy’. But tbh that’s just person b being dismissive in general.

Just my observation from reading umpteen pages

My sister used to do this when I had DC and she 'only' had a dog. We fell out about it (although we are always falling out so if it hadn't been over that it would have been something else). I put it down to her ignorance of TTC, labour, parenting etc.

That was decades ago. Since then she has had a horrendous time with TTC, miscarriages etc. She eventually had a daughter quite late in life who has significant special needs. She requires 24 hour care and will do for the rest of her life. And then DS became a single mum when her DH couldn't cope. So she has experienced pressures and aspects of parenting I have zero knowledge of. And with all that she still compares being a pet owner to being a parent and devotes the same emotional attention and care to her current dog as she does to her now teenage daughter.

I have had to conclude that her attitude wasn't due to ignorance of the realities of being a parent but that she and I just disagree on this.

The love I would have for a puppy would be teeny tiny teeny compared to the ocean of my love for my children

So hassle, picking up dog shit and training etc would feel like such a chore and hardship.

The same for my children can be a bit…. Sigh. But certainly not a hardship

@implantreplace

The love I would have for a puppy would be teeny tiny teeny compared to the ocean of my love for my children

So hassle, picking up dog shit and training etc would feel like such a chore and hardship.

The same for my children can be a bit…. Sigh. But certainly not a hardship

I disagree with that. I have kids and a dog and I absolutely think of my dog as almost another child. And pre kids, my pets were my babies.

@Everydaydayisaschoolday Your poor sister has had a very harsh time.
There is no harm in loving her DD and her pet, she has a lot of love and loss to deal with.

I don't get why you are bothered.

Obviously people know having a dog isn't like having a baby, people are aware they didn't birth their dog. But to a lot of people their dog is THEIR baby.

I know someone who couldn't have a baby, and she calls her dog her baby. She would have loved a human baby. She has now found something (a dog) that she can treat and love like her baby and it brings her joy and comfort...why does it make you feel any better to deny her that feeling ?

And also, I do actually know a couple of people who found the puppy stage harder than the newborn stage.

You sound unpleasant toward your friend.

I don't have either dogs or kids but even I know that as puppies for example you have to take them outside for bathroom purposes every 30 mins when you get them. It's very disruptive. There are a lot of similarities.

You sound as though you've joined the "She doesn't have children so she is lesser than me" school of thought.

@Momijin

You “disagree” with the fact that I would love my children very very much more than any puppy and respond accordingly

Or do you mean that YOU feel DIFFERENTLY to ME?

And when you say you disagree

Are you saying you love your dogs as much as your children? Presumably so if you disagree with me?

I have two babies. And yes a puppy massively changes your life, they get you up in the night, put things in their mouth they shouldn't and they need constant supervision, so in that sense it is the same.

I think you are being a bit over sensitive. I train my kids like the dog. Stop. No. Drop. Wait. They get treats if they are good too 😂

It's similar in that you forget how bad it is, and that's why people get a second! we're 10 months in with our second cockerpoo, the first slept through straight away, this one doesn't sleep, he throws tantrums on every walk, and we don't get maternity leave for dogs

And also, I do actually know a couple of people who found the puppy stage harder than the newborn stage.

I haven’t found kids or dogs particularly hard but for me, parenting my kids has been easier on the whole.

@juneybean

It's similar in that you forget how bad it is, and that's why people get a second! we're 10 months in with our second cockerpoo, the first slept through straight away, this one doesn't sleep, he throws tantrums on every walk, and we don't get maternity leave for dogs

No I haven't forgotten how bad house training is and my dog will be 11 this year! If I get another dog it will definitely be a dog and not a puppy!

Haha fair enough!

Your choice to have a baby
She chose a puppy - or did she?
Do you know 100% that puppy is not a substitute for not being able to have children?

I don't have a dog and I won't be having one until I feel I have at least the same amount of energy and commitment as I mustered to have a baby. Whereas a cat I'd have any old day. So I see her point.

OP, I think that the reason you feel so sensitive about the comment is because you feel nobody understands what you have been through, so a comment like this feels insulting and thoughtless, even though your friend is probably trying her best to empathise. After your birth trauma, did you talk to anyone, or did people just expect you to ecstatically commence parenthood?

People that honestly think that puppy = fur child have no idea about the parenthood. It is much more than being able/unable to leave your house when you want or staying up all night. And as someone said upthread - it is offensive to mothers.

Again, it depends what sort of person you are. I feel just as much responsibility and love for my children as I do my dogs. Lots of people seem to just use their dogs when they want entertaining or some company on a walk, then they’re an inconvenience the rest of the time. My dogs are my family, decisions are made with them in mind, just like with other family members. People could be offended by you saying they have no idea about parenthood. I’m a good mum and have brought up 2 lovely children although I’m not offended as I don’t really care what others think of my way of doing things. It’s works for us.

YANBU to say it here. And YANBU to say it to her. If your friendship is a strong one then just bloody say your piece, share your view. It's okay to do that! It's okay to say 'haha, I wish having a baby was like getting a puppy!' or whatever you want. Better than bottling it up and exploding. And you can't stop her saying it, but maybe you'll feel less aggro about it if you've said something back.

I'm on her side though, as someone who has had a baby and a puppy, they're remarkably similar. Obviously the process of pregnancy and birth doesn't correlate, and I doubt your friend would say it does. I suspect she's saying that having a puppy is like caring for a baby, or conveying that to her her puppy IS her baby.

People that honestly think that puppy = fur child have no idea about the parenthood. It is much more than being able/unable to leave your house when you want or staying up all night. And as someone said upthread - it is offensive to mothers.

Lol. Plenty of mothers to humans on the thread are saying that puppies are fur kids.

You mean it's offensive to you/some mothers. Not mothers in general. I can't imagine being offended because someone else has said that their puppy is like having a baby. I mean, it's a baby animal, so is a baby human, jesus.