Ukranian, welcome! Middleastern, African? Get to back of the bus!

[OldieWordly]

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

I agree completely @OldieWordly .
It makes me angry with myself as I find myself subconsciously reacting badly to any news item about Ukraine now as I'm so irritated by the double speak. I feel like the media is brainwashing me and I am finding it harder and harder to discern truth and hard facts. Just the language used is frustrating and emotive.

I feel great shame and despair when I think of how shitty refugees and other desperate people who are not from Europe have been treated.
One of my best friends was a Kurdish refugee and is now a proud Briton who loves the UK, and yet I despair of us all.

@BewareTheLibrarians - refugees have the same rights to welfare benefits etc as everyone else in the uk who is a citizen. It’s asylum seekers whose claims have not been resolved who are housed in specialist housing.

[quote OldieWordly]@JanisMoplin

'Yep. It will be deleted or moved to Black MN.'

I didn't know there was a Black MN. I would be furious if it was moved there, as I would hope that the questions I and others have raised should be discussed by everyone not just Black mumsnetters![/quote]
Yes, there is. Numerous posters on this subject have been accused of being Russian bots or attacking Ukrainians, so black MNetters prefer to discuss these issues there quietly. I don't blame them.

Why are men considered dangerous?
Honestly how can this need explaining?

I think moving it would be wrong. I’m white, and wouldn’t have seen this thread, with which I agree.

I lost compassion for the Ukrainians when I saw how they treated non whites

Is not a bit like saying that you lost compassion for the Afgans when you saw how they treated women? Or the Ugandans when you saw how they treated gay people? Or is that ok too?

@BewareTheLibrarians

Hi *@Katya213* I’ll comment Yes, the UK takes in lots of refugees. But if you think that refugees from Africa and the Middle East are treated well in the UK, then we might have to disagree.

Refugees are given an allowance of £35 a week.

They are not allowed to seek work in order to be able to support themselves, make friends and connections and have a feeling of self worth. Some brilliant schemes have been set up to offer volunteer work to refugees for this purpose, but these are sadly few and far between.

Refugees are often housed in hotels, in one room, even for a family. Hardly the family council house that many think they’re given. Which brings me to the next point,

Refugees can not access benefits and have no entitlement to a council house.

Refugees, especially those “single males” that people have a problem with, may also be housed in barracks deemed unfit for human habitation, overrun with cockroaches and rats, with security on the doors.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rats-sewage-cockroaches-uks-failed-26426687.amp

That article covers the shocking conditions that refugees are housed in - including flats with children in being left without heating and infested with rats, with mould, with sewage bubbling up into the kitchen sink.

There’s no point in the UK (not you personally) bragging that we take a lot of refugees when the way we treat them is inhumane.

My god, what an earth is going on in England?!

I have visited many clearsprings, NASS accommodation in my city (in Wales) when supporting refugees, and the flats/houses are well kept, clean and furnished to a lovely standard.

Once I felt bad moving them to a council house because it was in a worst state than the NASS accommodation 😳 but I pulled in available grants to help them, same as I would any family once they had NI numbers, and it was sorted.

The £35 a week is a single male rate, and it's low I agree. Wouldn't even do you a nice food shop, but the counter argument is they get no other outgoings. But I've always complained that £35 is far too low to live off.

@MangshorJhol

No one is saying we shouldn’t welcome Ukrainians. We should.

We are saying all refugees deserve to be treated this way. And if your excuse is that we are full and we can’t accept black and brown refugees but we can accept people ‘like us’ then sit with that thought and ask yourself why.

And don’t tell me ‘their culture is closer to us.’ There are more falafel and kebab shops in the UK than Ukrainian ones.

Yes but women can vote here

Women’s lives are no more important than mens.

No, but they are more vulnerable than men.

[quote Villagewaspbyke]@BewareTheLibrarians - refugees have the same rights to welfare benefits etc as everyone else in the uk who is a citizen. It’s asylum seekers whose claims have not been resolved who are housed in specialist housing.[/quote]
Absolutely, sorry for the lazy shorthand. Once people’s claim is accepted, they can. Unfortunately under this government the waiting time for claims to be approved is taking longer, with some cases people being left on unsuitable accommodation for over 18 months without their claim being processed.

So while the government can say “we take in x amount of asylum seekers” it doesn’t mean much if they’re left in awful conditions for over a year waiting for their claims to be processed so they can seek work and pay their own way.

@BewareTheLibrarians it’s not lazyspeak to confuse asylum seekers and refugees. It’s misinformation.

You are not wrong OP. Everyone knows that. But this thread is full of apologists trying to cover the obvious

I think people are mixing up the wording.

So if your are a refugee who can never return back home then you must claim asylum to stay in the UK.

This is where it differs for the Ukrainian refugees, everyone including the refugees themselves hope they can return to their homeland. Some may stay obviously but the majority of imagine want to return to their homeland once the aggressor leaves.

So they won't be claiming asylum, they will have a "specialist visa" allowing a "extended stay".

@Katya213

It’s all women and children, whilst the MEN fight for their country and not leave women and children behind.

This.

So, now men can’t be refugees..? I despair

Two points: One, Europe is our own continent. We have cultural, economic and political ties. Two, Zelensky has mandated than men of military age remain to fight, it is non-combatants who are fleeing. And quite right too.

It's very very simple.
The majority of white British people with a Christian belief or cultural tradition, who have donated aid, money or offered a home simply identify more closely with white Ukrainians with a Christian belief or background.

They see them a 'us'. It is basic human nature.

The idea of having someone from Ukraine in your home who has a European culture, eats similar food, has similar behaviours is just not as scary as having someone from say, Somalia . Where the culture, traditions , food and religious practices are completely unknown and alien.
Almost certainly not the politically correct t answer - but people want to feel comfortable in their own homes.

I come from a White British and SE Asian family make up. I would be willing to house a refugee from Europe or S Asia as that is the culture I'm familiar with. I wouldn't open my home to someone from India or Africa or S America as they are not cultures I'm familiar with.
Hopefully OP you as a black woman will open your home to a person who most closely aligns with your cultural experience.
It has nothing to do with colour. It has everything to do with culture and being comfortable in your own home.

Fun fact @roarfeckingroarr Swiss women were allowed to vote in 1971! Some 20 years after Syrian women got the vote. Women in Lichtenstein got the vote in 1984.

Isn't it interesting what we discover when we don't allow preconcieved notions to get in the way?

@WouldBeGood

So, now men can’t be refugees..? I despair

Men can, of course, but their president has asked them (those of military age, 18-60 years) to stay to fight to free their country. Do you have a problem with that? Who should be doing the fighting? No one? Someone else?

@Porcupineintherough - agreed. Also isn’t it pretty racist to say “you lost compassion for the Ukrainians when you saw how they treated non whites”. To decide that you have no compassion for an entire 40 million people because of some report on racist behavior from a tiny number of them is ridiculous.

I am Jewish. There was horrendous treatment of Jewish people in Ukraine in the past. Genocide and mass murder (not refusing a seat on a bus). There is still anti semitism in Ukraine like everywhere. But also many many good people in Ukraine who are not anti Semitic. And ultimately I will help because it’s the right thing to do abs I am a decent human being.

@lookforthesun

The people feeling Ukraine are predominantly women, children and the elderly. They are leaving a very active war zone and the men are staying to fight and defend it.

The people arriving on boats from FRANCE are overwhelmingly male, who have left their women and children behind in war zones and are fleeing...well... France.

They are economic migrants and I'm not saying they don't deserve any sympathy but it is a lot less sympathy in most people's minds when you're trying to leave France than when you're trying to leave Ukraine. Especially when they're mainly men and their culture has women so low down the pecking order that they didn't bother to try and bring the women to safety too.

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

It's totally different.

I agree . Whether or not there were genuine reasons behind it the demographic was mainly shown as men .

Also I don’t think we felt we knew enough about the rights and wrongs of the conflict to take sides , where as this time it’s pretty obvious that the attacks are based on lies .

IMO

Yanbu- I’m white and have been talking about this with friends and family. I don’t understand why we are so welcoming to some and not others. Why do some babies matter more than others? It’s horrific.

In my opinion we should be open to refugees from all over and have a similar scheme in place to support them. How can we expect black and brown asylum seekers to survive on no money while they wait for approval but yet find £350 a month to give to families who take in white refugees.

@Silvershroud no, upthread people are saying men are predators etc. so doubting their need for refuge from war torn or oppressive countries

@JanisMoplin - you have no idea of life in the Middle East if you think there is no sexism in Syria.