Ukranian, welcome! Middleastern, African? Get to back of the bus!

[OldieWordly]

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

Gatorade these issues were glaring Before the financial crash though! Before the Tories!

I was writing to my mp about the midwife crisis back in 2005. Our local hospital was beyond horrific.

I agree @OldieWordly and have been railing against this. It’s disgusting me that now we’re being made to feel guilty for not taking in Ukrainian refugees, whilst other conflicts and horrors go on apace. I cannot help but feel it’s racist.

For me I think the biggest difference is that people know it’s temporary. They want to get home to their husbands, brothers, dads etc. who have stayed to fight. They are seeking temporary refuge whilst their country is at war and people know this. I’m sure some will stay, but most will go home once it’s over. The same can’t be said for many other refugees, they come looking for a permanent place. As PP’s have said, many coming from other parts of the world are young, fit men who have left the girls and women behind. It’s different.

@User135792468

For me I think the biggest difference is that people know it’s temporary. They want to get home to their husbands, brothers, dads etc. who have stayed to fight. They are seeking temporary refuge whilst their country is at war and people know this. I’m sure some will stay, but most will go home once it’s over. The same can’t be said for many other refugees, they come looking for a permanent place. As PP’s have said, many coming from other parts of the world are young, fit men who have left the girls and women behind. It’s different.

The first part is also true. Given how much the UK loves EE... just wait for any indication that the war will be long drawn out and all sympathy will evaporate. It may be about race but it's really not the MAIN issue.

What's going to happen 6 months from now when there's still a war, the UK is in recession ... how much goodwill will there be then?

20:54lookforthesun
"The people feeling Ukraine are predominantly women, children and the elderly"

The refugees from Somalia were predominantly women and children.

"I do think that sympathy to children from any war torn or impoverished country is pretty standard though"

Ok it was the gutter press, but there were pictures of Muslim families suggesting that they were leaches and entitled to be asking for housing. Our own Prime Minister used to use Migrants, instead of refugees when speaking about them.

If I had come from Ukraine I would want to live in a hotel rather than someone's spare room. If I had to go into a private home I would prefer that to be a family with as much as possible in common with me. If I was housed with e.g a Muslim family I would be on pins the whole time, that I was wearing the wrong thing, saying the wrong thing, behaving in a way that caused offence culturally, without having any idea that I was doing it. The food would be totally different and the religious aspects around it would be so easy to get wrong. Would I be able to retain my cultural,food preferences. I doubt it. It would just add an extra layer of massive stress to both parties. If I was housed with a family who looked like me,dressed like me,ate similar food to me,were the same religion or no religion it would be far,far easier to settle. That's not racist on either side. There will be enough trauma without saying that people need to adopt some desperately woke agenda and pretend that cultural differences don't matter. When you are living next door to someone 'different' it's not a problem. If you are living in their spare room it is a huge problem.

From what i can see, the Ukrainian refugees are mostly women and children, also the elderly. The boat loads that turn up each day from france are mostly young men! That is what the problem is! Genuine refugees vs economic migrants.

@IchabodCrane India has abstained. Because it needs Russian arms and Russian support when China attacks it, which it surely will soon. China hasn't said a word because well, it's China. But we are in agreement that cynical geopolitics also plays a part. So many nations need to be on the right side of Russia, sadly.

By international movement, I meant movement literally, not solidarity:)

Hi @Katya213 I’ll comment Yes, the UK takes in lots of refugees. But if you think that refugees from Africa and the Middle East are treated well in the UK, then we might have to disagree.

Refugees are given an allowance of £35 a week.

They are not allowed to seek work in order to be able to support themselves, make friends and connections and have a feeling of self worth. Some brilliant schemes have been set up to offer volunteer work to refugees for this purpose, but these are sadly few and far between.

Refugees are often housed in hotels, in one room, even for a family. Hardly the family council house that many think they’re given. Which brings me to the next point,

Refugees can not access benefits and have no entitlement to a council house.

Refugees, especially those “single males” that people have a problem with, may also be housed in barracks deemed unfit for human habitation, overrun with cockroaches and rats, with security on the doors.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rats-sewage-cockroaches-uks-failed-26426687.amp

That article covers the shocking conditions that refugees are housed in - including flats with children in being left without heating and infested with rats, with mould, with sewage bubbling up into the kitchen sink.

There’s no point in the UK (not you personally) bragging that we take a lot of refugees when the way we treat them is inhumane.

@JanisMoplin

'Yep. It will be deleted or moved to Black MN.'

I didn't know there was a Black MN. I would be furious if it was moved there, as I would hope that the questions I and others have raised should be discussed by everyone not just Black mumsnetters!

@OldieWordly thank you for saying what I have been thinking.
No one will admit it, but you are right…Ukrainians are European and ‘look’ more relatable to some it seems.

It’s appalling what is happening in other further afield war torn countries - this virtue signalling crap regarding opening up homes to Ukrainian refugees, just because basically ‘we are told to’ by the media (good at getting the masses to behave exactly how they want them to aren’t they ), is cringeworthy.

I’m 100% with you here op

It is not completely abnormal to feel a greater responsibility for refugees from ones own continent - there are far greater economic and cultural ties to nearby countries than distant ones where people live lives very different from ones own. Note that even in the case of fellow European countries, the closer your country is to the country refugees are fleeing from, the greater the sense of responsibility to help them and accommodate them in vast numbers. I doubt anyone in the UK would expect to take in as many Ukrainian refugees as Poland or Hungary do, for example. Also, the current intention is that Ukrainian refugees will be able to go home in the not too distant future to a democratic country, and not expect settle in other European countries forever. Afghanistan and Syria, on the other hand, are expected to remain places no sane person would want to return to in the foreseeable future, so not somewhere refugees are likely to be desperate to go back to within the next three years. Also, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a far more obvious and direct threat to European stability than wars and troubles on other continents, so there is a considerably greater degree of self-interest, not just selflessness, in helping Ukrainians.

At the moment UK is "welcoming" the refugees if they have family or sponsor here. You cant really question people welcoming their family. As for sponsoring, people are more comfortable welcoming someone they feel they understand more and dont have to consider cultural differences, food, religion. Would a muslim lady even leave with a man that is not her family? Etc. Etc.
If it was other way and you had to flee UK where would you rather go? Iran? Quatar or Australia? And why?

[quote Katya213]@BewareTheLibrarians. War IS War, you can make it up as much as you like but it’s all the same in the end.[/quote]
Are Ukrainian men having to choose between fighting their countrymen (not Russians, but fellow Ukrainians) or being shot in the head?

Not sure what you mean by “you can make it up”, sadly this is true and has happened in many countries.

@AngelinaFibres

If I had come from Ukraine I would want to live in a hotel rather than someone's spare room. If I had to go into a private home I would prefer that to be a family with as much as possible in common with me. If I was housed with e.g a Muslim family I would be on pins the whole time, that I was wearing the wrong thing, saying the wrong thing, behaving in a way that caused offence culturally, without having any idea that I was doing it. The food would be totally different and the religious aspects around it would be so easy to get wrong. Would I be able to retain my cultural,food preferences. I doubt it. It would just add an extra layer of massive stress to both parties. If I was housed with a family who looked like me,dressed like me,ate similar food to me,were the same religion or no religion it would be far,far easier to settle. That's not racist on either side. There will be enough trauma without saying that people need to adopt some desperately woke agenda and pretend that cultural differences don't matter. When you are living next door to someone 'different' it's not a problem. If you are living in their spare room it is a huge problem.

Interestingly Muslims were actually pioneering explorers, hospitality is a big part and in a pinch you're supposed to eat what you're given, not upset your host! It was Muslim scholars who preserved, translated and interpreted Greek texts during the dark ages. I could go on.

All of this brilliance has unfortunately been ruined by greed and power, with religion as a tool but really. Nowadays people are so indoctrinated they're obsessed with rules.

Anyway I digress you're not wrong, cultural etc preferences are a big deal. When I had Muslim housemates they had their own sponges, kitchenware etc and halal meat.

[quote Tillsforthrills]@LibrariesGiveUsPower

Yep correct I had mentioned those. They are close in proximity, understand the culture and religions in the region and can help refugees.

Any stats on Europe and the UK?[/quote]
www.unhcr.org/refugee-statistics/download/?url=6uQxF9

I can’t open the page on mobile, but the stats are here.

“73 per cent of refugees displaced abroad lived in countries neighbouring their countries of origin.”

“An estimated 35 million (42%) of the 82.4 million forcibly displaced people are children below 18 years of age (end-2020).“

Turkey hosts the largest number of refugees, with 3.7 million people. Colombia is second with more than 1.7 million, including Venezuelans displaced abroad (as of mid-2021).

Turkey 3.7 million
Colombia 1.7 million
Uganda 1.5 million
Pakistan 1.4 million
Germany 1.2 million

Thread 93794849383 on this subject

@fairycakewings

Palestinian groups are also plenty active in keeping the conflict going. You can not argue that the conflict would end if only Israel withdrew from Palestine unilaterally, because without an agreement with the Palestinians, Israel couldn't magically get groups like Hamas to give up on the conflict
The fact that your political views prevent you from acknowledging the fact that Israel have welcomed more Ukranian refugees than the Uk is interesting.

Also none of my family in Israel would class themselves as "white"

There have been lots of previous threads on this. Why is your response to the horrors of war in Ukraine to try to attack them or those who would help them on grounds of race? That’s pretty disturbing. It would actually be less disturbing if you are a Russian bot.

Ukrainians need our help. Let’s give it.

@AngelinaFibres

If I had come from Ukraine I would want to live in a hotel rather than someone's spare room. If I had to go into a private home I would prefer that to be a family with as much as possible in common with me. If I was housed with e.g a Muslim family I would be on pins the whole time, that I was wearing the wrong thing, saying the wrong thing, behaving in a way that caused offence culturally, without having any idea that I was doing it. The food would be totally different and the religious aspects around it would be so easy to get wrong. Would I be able to retain my cultural,food preferences. I doubt it. It would just add an extra layer of massive stress to both parties. If I was housed with a family who looked like me,dressed like me,ate similar food to me,were the same religion or no religion it would be far,far easier to settle. That's not racist on either side. There will be enough trauma without saying that people need to adopt some desperately woke agenda and pretend that cultural differences don't matter. When you are living next door to someone 'different' it's not a problem. If you are living in their spare room it is a huge problem.

I am not Muslim, but I think any Muslim family that was kind enough to take you in would allow you to eat white bread rather than delicious biryani and continue watching Love Island if you chose to do so. Such a weird post. Muslims aren't just dying to take offence at what you do. No brown person is.

@wanttomarryamillionaire

From what i can see, the Ukrainian refugees are mostly women and children, also the elderly. The boat loads that turn up each day from france are mostly young men! That is what the problem is! Genuine refugees vs economic migrants.

You’re confusing refugees with illegal immigrants there.

@Bellyups I agree.

@wanttomarryamillionaire

From what i can see, the Ukrainian refugees are mostly women and children, also the elderly. The boat loads that turn up each day from france are mostly young men! That is what the problem is! Genuine refugees vs economic migrants.

Please read my previous posts to see why young men are not guaranteed to be “economic migrants” but actually face death. @KimikosNightmare too.

Clearly too much to ask people to read all the posts on a thread before they post on it.

@Loudhousefun

Ukrainians were not allowing brown and black people to get on the buses and trains. It really doesn’t get much worse than that.

I read about this too @Loudhousefun: black students being used as ‘body armour’

I think it’s human nature that people have more feeling for those they can identify with, & it’s so sudden/it’s women and children : all compassion is good

That said @OldieWordly: you are not wrong, it is racist, especially government policy

Being Indian origin myself I really identify with women in Afghanistan who have had their way of life eradicated and are unsafe. I would absolutely open my home to an Afghan woman, especially widows/single women : but I see no option for this

The lame stream media are racist.
So are the Ukrainian government. They didn't allow non whites onto buses leaving Ukraine. Their president has said nothing about this. Non whites were effectively held hostage by not allowing them to leave.

Brexit was brought about because they didn't want refugees. Now the media is supporting refugees coming here. But no mention of the refugees could be terrorist etc like the Syrians were portrayed as.

Ukrainians have more in common culturally with eastern European countries, which they are passing through to get to the UK. Why would they do this?

If we had enough homes then we wouldn't have homeless people. UK citizens are left homeless but refugees are given accommodation. How is that fair?

People saying well its mainly women and children coming so it safer. Thats sexist. Why are men considered dangerous? Everyone is human.

I lost compassion for the Ukrainians when I saw how they treated non whites.