Ukranian, welcome! Middleastern, African? Get to back of the bus!

[OldieWordly]

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

@lookforthesun

The people feeling Ukraine are predominantly women, children and the elderly. They are leaving a very active war zone and the men are staying to fight and defend it.

The people arriving on boats from FRANCE are overwhelmingly male, who have left their women and children behind in war zones and are fleeing...well... France.

They are economic migrants and I'm not saying they don't deserve any sympathy but it is a lot less sympathy in most people's minds when you're trying to leave France than when you're trying to leave Ukraine. Especially when they're mainly men and their culture has women so low down the pecking order that they didn't bother to try and bring the women to safety too.

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

It's totally different.

There is so much that is wrong with your post. The assumptions you are making are so wrong. Maybe try to educate yourself. There are very good reasons why the men come alone. Are you aware of the fact that men of a certain age are not allowed to leave Ukraine, or do you just think that all the men are hero's, who all want to fight this invasion?

I agree with you OP. It’s disgusting. People like @CannaBelieve want to shut down any talk of this, but this isn’t “whataboutery” this needs to be discussed now, otherwise it won’t ever be discussed.

THe hypocrisy makes my blood boil.

@lookforthesun

The people feeling Ukraine are predominantly women, children and the elderly. They are leaving a very active war zone and the men are staying to fight and defend it.

The people arriving on boats from FRANCE are overwhelmingly male, who have left their women and children behind in war zones and are fleeing...well... France.

They are economic migrants and I'm not saying they don't deserve any sympathy but it is a lot less sympathy in most people's minds when you're trying to leave France than when you're trying to leave Ukraine. Especially when they're mainly men and their culture has women so low down the pecking order that they didn't bother to try and bring the women to safety too.

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

It's totally different.

I'm afraid that some of your comments are somewhat distateful, with common tropes about others and their cultures.

There were families fleeing Syria, not just young men. As for the remark about fleeing France, a safe country, why not use the same argument for Ukranians, moving through several countries to get to the UK. Why are they doing it? Ah yes, the same as Syrians, Africans etc, because they have family and friends here.

The only difference is that Ukranian war refugees are welcome, other war refugees not so much.

Did the uk not offer homes for Syrian refugees? We have at least 5 Syrian refugee families in my town, they are really lovely.

I also agree with lookforthesun.

I agree with you OP, and it leaves a bitter aftertaste. I think part of it is the constant media coverage of every atrocity in Ukraine, complete with loads of human interest stories, which will naturally evoke enormous sympathy, whereas attacks on civilian populations in Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan etc are not covered to such an extent. (And, yes, racism and Islamophobia).

I am brown and I completely support what UK government and people are doing for Ukrainian refugees. Current Ukrainian refugees are women with young children and they need our support. Ukraine is under attack by a very powerful nation and it's an unequal fight. It's not a civil war. Also they are European refugees seeking shelter in Europe.
The refugees that we see coming into the UK from Middle East and Africa are young able bodied men who have escaped war zones and have also passed through several safe countries. They are now economic migrants. If they were escaping war whether it be in Africa or Middle East, they would have settled in neighbouring safer African and Middle Eastern countries. They would have been escaping with their families with women and children. They wouldn't have been single men who paid thousands of pounds to people smugglers to smuggle them into the UK.
The two situations are not the same.

28% of those fleeing Syria were women and children. More women and children died in the Mediterranean. You cannot apply for asylum unless you make a perilous journey so often men would come over, hoping that if they reached they could bring their families over.
Not that long ago Assad was using chemical weapons against his own people in Syria.

[quote Gonnagetgoing]@lookforthesun - this. Lots of the black, brown immigrants are on the whole, fit young men with no families, presumably left in their home country, so, economic migrants. And from France or Italy.

The refugees from Ukraine are refugees and fleeing nuclear attack or death by shooting.[/quote]
This is massively ignorant.

Being a “fit young man” doesn’t automatically mean you’re an economic migrant. In the countries these “black,brown immigrants” are coming from, being a fit young man means facing torture and a horrific death. My relative’s only crime was being a relatively liberal university professor. You think he should have stayed there to get murdered, for that?

Refugees I work with left their countries because the alternative was being forced into a militia to kill their neighbours, and their refusal meant getting shot in the head. Which choice would you prefer? They’d watch their uncles, fathers, older brothers being kidnapped and murdered for the same reason. Would you leave your son/nephew/cousin to face the same fate, or scramble together every bit of money you can to get them somewhere safe?

Do you understand how desperate you have to be to get on a boat and face the very high chance of drowning, because what you’re leaving behind is worse?

Do you understand that most who come to England come because they speak English, not French, so can work and build a life? Do you know why they speak English?

Or do you just assume that because they’re “brown” they’re up to no good and don’t deserve help, like you’ve just done here?

OP have you researched yet the numbers of Bob white refugees this country has housed? I guess it doesn’t help your narrative does it?

The fact that you feel annoyance at the media’s coverage has made you feel unsympathetic to Ukrainians at the moment is ironic. Do you see the irony?

*non white refugees

There was a war in Syria. Russia was closely involved in it. It created a massive refugee crisis. I don’t know why people are saying the Syrians ‘chose’ to leave.
This happened. Trigger warning: very distressing photos.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_attack

No one is saying we shouldn’t welcome Ukrainians. We should.

We are saying all refugees deserve to be treated this way. And if your excuse is that we are full and we can’t accept black and brown refugees but we can accept people ‘like us’ then sit with that thought and ask yourself why.

And don’t tell me ‘their culture is closer to us.’ There are more falafel and kebab shops in the UK than Ukrainian ones.

Yes I agree.

I think there are other factors at play too - ie it’s very close to home, it’s the threat of major war in Europe which a lot of people never thought would happen, it feeds into the fear of the End of Europe/Democracy/The West.. but yes, I wish I could disagree with you but I can’t, I think race is playing a part.

Apart from the refugee crisis, over 10,000 children have been killed in Yemen by US backed Saudi forces since 2015, according to the latest UN figures. I don't think I have seen much coverage of that. Inconvenient truth.

@MangshorJhol

No one is saying we shouldn’t welcome Ukrainians. We should.

We are saying all refugees deserve to be treated this way. And if your excuse is that we are full and we can’t accept black and brown refugees but we can accept people ‘like us’ then sit with that thought and ask yourself why.

And don’t tell me ‘their culture is closer to us.’ There are more falafel and kebab shops in the UK than Ukrainian ones.

This.

Oh good heavens not AGAIN.

@Guineapigssweak

The children injured and scarred from the Syrian war is awful. I feel for.the innocent children of all colours and creeds and wish they were taken somewhere safe. But the UK cannot house the world and we have year after year taken in many thousands of people from war torn countries and even those.who arrive for our benefits only. We cannot keep up with constantly taking in more people as everyone is suffering in the long run. We are suffering a severe housing shortage, wait weeks to see a Dr, Local schools full up, months for.help for mental health issues and the list goes on. We are already sinking. The men who start these vile wars and those who use religion as an excuse to cause harm need to be stopped before it escalates like Hitler did.

I know we can't house the world. However, there should be fairness in the offer of a place in the UK whether temporary or permanently.

It shouldn't be based on 'you look white like most of the people in the UK, so come on in'.

Don't pretend you can't see the difference between housing a female from Ukraine vs a male from Syria...

Anyone who says the risk level is the same is either trolling or incredibly ignorant.

I do agree with you OP I think 99% it is just racism. That the white refugees are more welcomed than the brown / black refugees

I also think s small part of it is because the Ukraine war is very much a stereotypical image of what a generation perceives a ‘real’ war to be . That a big bad evil dictator invades another country and it’s very clear cut from the outset. In the news every minute whereas wars and conflict in other places seems to be less well covered by the press (again i wonder the motivation for this).

@MangshorJhol @emuloc

Do you know how many Syrian and other non-white refugees the UK has homed?

I do think that UK media can be racist but don’t let that fool you into thinking the UK is racist as a whole and hasn’t helped very high numbers of asylum seekers and refugees. To deny that is nonsense.

Right now, the situation in Ukraine could unleash WW3 so of course the media is all over it.

@Im2022 completely agree with you and this is a point that most people miss. They think countries like Syria are and have always been backwards and dirty and uncivilized. The ignorance is astounding.

Not to mention asylum seekers don’t get benefits, which doesn’t seem to be widely known. They get £35 a week. They often get housed in hotels for months/years, with their children often unable to access education. They’re not allowed to work, often for months or years while their claim is processed, meaning they can’t support themselves. It’s better than death, but it’s not a life. Yet some people want it to be worse for them.

I think it's unfair to say that there wasn't a lot of media coverage and hand wringing over Syria and Afghanistan. I often think what the hell is happening in Afghanistan now that the world's attention is on Ukraine. The way America and Britain pulled out of Afghanistan is brutally shocking, doubt many of us will ever forget all the dreadful footage of the last days at Kabul airport.

As for offering homes? I just don't know tbh. Language? Culture? Maybe colour? Being able to relate to other people on a level concerning those 3 reasons mentioned must be a massive factor in how we react. It's all very complex.

@WhatTheWhoTheWhatThe

I suspect it’s a lot to do with our fears for our own safety and that this war has the possibility to come to our doorstep. There’s been plenty of hype and fear mongering about Putin and nuclear attacks. The cynic in mean feels that people would be equally as disinterested in the Ukrainians as they are other refugees if they didn’t feel at some level their was personal risk to our own country.

I agree with this. There's a real sense if we don't stop Putin now, then he'll march across Europe and there'll be no one left to defend us, so people seem to be doing what they can.

Speaking personally, I was distraught by the recent withdrawal of Western forces in Afghanistan. I donated money, and offered up a studio flat I own for a refugee family, but was declined as it was deemed too rural.

Now to Ukraine. The situation begins with the invasion of an Eastern European country. WW2 is recent history in European terms. I’m from Liverpool and the stories, the bombed-out buildings which remain, prompt the question: is the conflict going to spread West and affect us? The imagery is disturbingly familiar and possibly this is why people are more engaged.

Plus, there have been real threats made about nuclear weapons; China is behind Russia, but we don’t yet know the militaristic implications of that alliance. It feels bigger, more far reaching, than, say, the conflict in Syria.