Ukranian, welcome! Middleastern, African? Get to back of the bus!

[OldieWordly]

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

[quote StolenYourStollen]@icelolly12
Then maybe British people should have thought about it before they colonised those countries or asked them to fight alongside them during WW2?[/quote]
@icelolly12 has somewhat of a point.
Fundamentalist values don't affect white people - mostly those of the same race.
FGM, honour killings, forced marriage.. see this happening to any white Brits?
As a brown woman the most stared I've gotten walking down the street in a miniskirt was from my OWN people. There are certain areas I won't go, in certain clothes, because I'll be harassed. White SIL however can go there happily, they expect white people to be 'immodestly dressed' so nothing to shout about.

Now here's the nuance.
It's WRONG to assume that people from certain countries have certain values. There may be a 'general culture', but specific individuals have different opinions. Indeed the ones who manage to get out first are wealthier, so probably better educated and more liberal.
It's necessary however to emphasize that some things are unacceptable in Britain, no matter what people's own culture, holy book or what have you tells them.
Some values just aren't compatible. There's zero room for 'compromise'. In 2022 people are still valuing girls less than boys, trying to force them to marry people they don't want and expecting them to obey their husbands.

I hate the arguement about Muslims not fitting in!
How many white Brits actually take the trouble to learn anything about their Muslims neighbours whereas you'll not find any muslims who don't know about easter, christmas.

@Sh05

I hate the arguement about Muslims not fitting in! How many white Brits actually take the trouble to learn anything about their Muslims neighbours whereas you'll not find any muslims who don't know about easter, christmas.

Plenty don't. All they know is that it's a public holiday. If they have schoolchildren who do something for they day they might, but otherwise, nope. And it's not just 'Muslims'. All of this is also a problem with Indians (who are mostly Hindu) but since Britain cut off Commonwealth migration the ones here now are usually uni students. Wealthy, educated in international schools etc. Not the case 20+ years ago

I do think there is some merit in this discussion.

I haven't applied to the Ukrainian Refugee Scheme - but I think I would now if I could tick a box stating that I would also consider hosting/sponsoring an Afghani, Syrian or Yemeni Refugee too.

The best thing about the Ukrainian Scheme is that it demonstrates the willingness of many UK people to react to a desperate need.

There's still hope for us yet.

But how many white British people know anything at all about there non white asian neighbours.
Not many and I'd actually say very few.

Plenty don't. All they know is that it's a public holiday. If they have schoolchildren who do something for they day they might, but otherwise, nope.

Not in my experience. Calling the uk response to different wars in recent years racist is naive but the response to black and brown people trying to leave Ukraine has been racist, that’s undeniable.

Plenty don't. All they know is that it's a public holiday. If they have schoolchildren who do something for they day they might, but otherwise, nope.
*And it's not just 'Muslims'. All of this is also a problem with Indians (who are mostly Hindu) but since Britain cut off Commonwealth migration the ones here now are usually uni students. Wealthy, educated in international schools etc. Not the case 20+ years ago
*
Actually, that's absolutely bollocks, and just shows that you don't know any Muslims.

You do realise that the religion incorporates Christian and Jewish teachings? Jesus is a Muslim prophet, just like Mohammed. It may shock you to hear that it isn't uncommon for Muslims to wish Christians a merry Christmas, even in the Middle East.

Your addendum about the "mostly Tamil" Indians just shows how little you know.

"The ones" already here? Did you write Rising Damp???

@SugarAndSpiceIsNice

I am brown and I completely support what UK government and people are doing for Ukrainian refugees. Current Ukrainian refugees are women with young children and they need our support. Ukraine is under attack by a very powerful nation and it's an unequal fight. It's not a civil war. Also they are European refugees seeking shelter in Europe. The refugees that we see coming into the UK from Middle East and Africa are young able bodied men who have escaped war zones and have also passed through several safe countries. They are now economic migrants. If they were escaping war whether it be in Africa or Middle East, they would have settled in neighbouring safer African and Middle Eastern countries. They would have been escaping with their families with women and children. They wouldn't have been single men who paid thousands of pounds to people smugglers to smuggle them into the UK. The two situations are not the same.

Totally agree

icelolly12 your Islamophobia is shining through, hun.

Majority do stay in neighbouring countries eg Afghanistan to Pakistan

You do realise this " welcome " will be shortlived . The longer this war goes on the less interested we will be in it when problems at home like increased costs bite even more. Id give it 2 weeks - 3 max and there will be a massive drop in doors opening to accommodate them. Colour of skin means nothing. You are reading racism.into this rather than the first european war in 75 yrs and the shock factor of that to us europeans.Yab totally unreasonable to compare syria or africa to this but i do acknowlege the hand of help wasnt quite so strong for them but it is simply down to geography and the war feeling NEARER

@Duchess379

You've hit the nail on the head. Ukraianians have been pouring into Poland & neighbouring countries as well as the UK, but those asylum seekers coming to the UK via boats have bypassed lots of countries before the UK because they know our immigration system is soft & just hand out out free housing & money. They don't want to go back to their homeland & fight. Then they lie & say they're 14yrs old when they're in their mid 20s. And get placed in a secondary school. It's all wrong.

This is an argument from a long time ago, the Blair years when the government did actually give vulnerable people money. It has been a long time since the UK has had a generous benefits system and the housing system is shambolic. There's a reason why foreign nationals often squeeze many many people into houses and sleep in shifts.

@Radyward

You do realise this " welcome " will be shortlived . The longer this war goes on the less interested we will be in it when problems at home like increased costs bite even more. Id give it 2 weeks - 3 max and there will be a massive drop in doors opening to accommodate them. Colour of skin means nothing. You are reading racism.into this rather than the first european war in 75 yrs and the shock factor of that to us europeans.Yab totally unreasonable to compare syria or africa to this but i do acknowlege the hand of help wasnt quite so strong for them but it is simply down to geography and the war feeling NEARER

I do agree with this. The Russian invasion of Ukraine has echoes of the actions of the Third Reich, the horrors of Nazi Germany and the war were drummed into us at school for years, I think a lot of the shock and horror is a result of a visceral fear of war in Europe after what we've seen in the past.

Turkey and Germany take vast majority of refugees.
There’s no by passing just to get to uk.
It’s a small Percentage that come here

I give this thread 24 hours before it gets deleted, which is a shame, I think. It certainly has made me think about a few things.

@Ladybyrd

I give this thread 24 hours before it gets deleted, which is a shame, I think. It certainly has made me think about a few things.

Why do you think it'll be deleted?

I hear you OP.

People that want to support can donate here: www.gofundme.com/f/Support-Black-people-fleeing-Ukraine

[quote Timewilltell519]@Duchess379 so many things wrong with your statement. It reads just like a comment in the Daily Mail. As for free housing and money, it can take years for an asylum seeker to get housed in a stable location in the UK and their allowance each week is very low, less than £40 per week which they can only spend in certain items. Hardly a fortune is it! Please do some research as disinformation is damaging as some people will actually believe what your saying![/quote]
every one of them that arrives via the chanel has to be housed , many of them are put into hotels , and yes they may only get 35 pounds a week but then multiply that by the hundreds , as there are now literaly hundreds of them crossing over and it soon adds up .
and then they are here for ages and ages whilst they drag out appeals to stay , i do believe there was a figure put out in the papers last year of how much its costing to keep them and the figure was a million something

why would people not believe it ? when there are photos of hoards of them arriving and ones of warehouses filled with hundreds of the dingies they arrive in its not rocket science to work out they are costing a lot of money to be kept here

The money “given” to asylum seekers in the UK is a drop in the ocean compared to what billionaire tax evaders get away with in this country - your anger is misdirected friend. . .

@TheFuckingDogs

The money “given” to asylum seekers in the UK is a drop in the ocean compared to what billionaire tax evaders get away with in this country - your anger is misdirected friend. . .

yea im sure it is , but still it pisses me off that they cross illegally into this country when they should be claiming asylum in the first safe country they are in and then cost a ton of money to be housed and fed indefinately

yea im sure it is , but still it pisses me off that they cross illegally into this country when they should be claiming asylum in the first safe country they are in and then cost a ton of money to be housed and fed indefinately

They not crossing illegally, that has been decided by the UK courts, you cannot be an illegal refugee.

The UK offers no other means to get here and many refugees go on to to become active members of the society, like the former Syrian refugee who is a stroke specialist at my local hospital and treated my mum.

Of course had we not decided to leave the EU because we didn't like white europeans "stealing our jobs" (and were hoodwinked by Putins stooges Bojo and Farage) we could send back the economic ones.

[quote Timewilltell519]@Duchess379 so many things wrong with your statement. It reads just like a comment in the Daily Mail. As for free housing and money, it can take years for an asylum seeker to get housed in a stable location in the UK and their allowance each week is very low, less than £40 per week which they can only spend in certain items. Hardly a fortune is it! Please do some research as disinformation is damaging as some people will actually believe what your saying![/quote]
They get free accommodation, all their gas, electricity and water bills paid, access to a mobile phone with an allowance, plus a weekly stipend, all of which adds up to more than most pensioners get paid as a basic pension when you factor in housing costs, utility bills, no council tax etc, plus the stipend. It's pretty generous considering they often continue to get this even when their asylum claim is denied, very few of them are deported (as was recently seen with the failed asylum seeker who blew himself up outside the Liverpool maternity hospital).

@Wolfie12 how is the genuine question that @icelolly12 asked ‘islamophobia’? She has asked why those countries don’t do more to help their displaced brothers and sisters.

Labelling ‘islamophobia’ these types of questions is as an attempt to silence any discussion around uncomfortable topics about those countries. It’s a tactic regularly used by people like yourself and others to try and slander people for their free speech.

@Alexandra2001

yea im sure it is , but still it pisses me off that they cross illegally into this country when they should be claiming asylum in the first safe country they are in and then cost a ton of money to be housed and fed indefinately

They not crossing illegally, that has been decided by the UK courts, you cannot be an illegal refugee.

The UK offers no other means to get here and many refugees go on to to become active members of the society, like the former Syrian refugee who is a stroke specialist at my local hospital and treated my mum.

Of course had we not decided to leave the EU because we didn't like white europeans "stealing our jobs" (and were hoodwinked by Putins stooges Bojo and Farage) we could send back the economic ones.

they are crossing illegally i thought ? they are supposed to claim asylum in the first safe country they arrive in . or so iv read over the years , and yes syrians were genuine , they were fleeing a war , not so much all the others from various countries in africa and the middle east who iv seen on the news and papers freely admitting they want a better life and so want to come to the uk , this is the bit that fucking gets me , i want a better life in australia , but i dont get to rock up on the shores and get helped off and put in a hotel , given money each week whilst i fake a load of bullshit so i can stay there ,

if we werent having to house that lot then there would be more room for the ones that are genuine and really really had to leave their country .
and yes i do agree with you about brexit a thousand times over , its farce , most of the east europeons had skills to offer and they came over supported themselves , worked and now loads of them have gone back we are none the better for it , i just laugh when i read the latest daily mail headline with a boatload of migrants on the shores of dover and wonder how those leavers feel now when they see that lot arriving .

The majority do claim asylum in the first country they come to. Please check the figures for the number of asylum seekers in Turkey and Pakistan and Germany. Then compare it to what the UK gets.