Ukranian, welcome! Middleastern, African? Get to back of the bus!

[OldieWordly]

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

@TheSillyMastiff

I think people are mixing up the wording.

So if your are a refugee who can never return back home then you must claim asylum to stay in the UK.

This is where it differs for the Ukrainian refugees, everyone including the refugees themselves hope they can return to their homeland. Some may stay obviously but the majority of imagine want to return to their homeland once the aggressor leaves.

So they won't be claiming asylum, they will have a "specialist visa" allowing a "extended stay".

Yes . They will want to return , if it’s possible .

That is obvious.

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

^^

This.

[quote WouldBeGood]@Silvershroud no, upthread people are saying men are predators etc. so doubting their need for refuge from war torn or oppressive countries[/quote]
No one is actually saying this.
They are stating that statistically men are more dangerous than women or children.
That it isn't unreasonable that some people feel more comfortable sharing their home with another woman and child rather than a man.

Not to split feathers but you can easily aisly live off £35 a week for food for one person.

@dipdye

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

^^

This.

Didn’t read the thread then

Honestly this is such an ignorant, xenophobic and incorrect view, it would be nice to stop perpetuating it.

@Unsure33
I really don’t get how can you be so sure?

This all makes me so sad. There’s clearly a hierarchy of people deemed worthy of help, and it’s not right.

[quote Villagewaspbyke]@JanisMoplin - you have no idea of life in the Middle East if you think there is no sexism in Syria.[/quote]
I didn't say there wasn't. I have lived in the Middle East. But there is some blatant racism on this thread.

Let's face it, men are predators. And please don't start bleating about NAMALT

I don't know, OP. This article says that Scotland took 3500 Syrian refugees since 2014.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/18271303.almost-3-500-syrian-refugees-resettled-scotland-since-2014/

And apparently Scotland has also agreed to take at least 3000 from Ukraine.

It looks similar? But I'm not sure what is happening elsewhere in UK.

@dipdye

Not to split feathers but you can easily aisly live off £35 a week for food for one person.

No you absolutely can, and you can spend your remaining non-eating hours staring at a wall as there’s no money to live/travel/buy clothes/pay for English language classes so you can integrate into the community.

£35 isn’t your food budget, it’s your only money.

I’m remembering the horrific use of the photo of line of refugees/asylum seekers/migrants used in the Brexit campaign

It was a dreadful photo but it was from UKIP, not the official Brexit campaign.

Climate change is going to be fun. It really will be survival of the whitest. And a hierarchy of who deserves to survive. One of Elon Musk's 7 blonde children will be at the top, and some African child with zero carbon footprint at the bottom, crucified for not giving women the vote or some such.

@CannaBelieve

there have been previous threads on this

And???

I live in a town that has been a settlement area for Syrian refugees. I have not heard much difference locally in the acceptance or willingness to help both groups. I'm surprised also to see how much noise there is on SM about the Ukrainian refugees.
We have also had some from various other conflicts but I think those two wars have stirred up people's willingness here at least, because of the displacement of whole cities (rather than e.g. refugees who have been personally targeted).

@lookforthesun

The people feeling Ukraine are predominantly women, children and the elderly. They are leaving a very active war zone and the men are staying to fight and defend it.

The people arriving on boats from FRANCE are overwhelmingly male, who have left their women and children behind in war zones and are fleeing...well... France.

They are economic migrants and I'm not saying they don't deserve any sympathy but it is a lot less sympathy in most people's minds when you're trying to leave France than when you're trying to leave Ukraine. Especially when they're mainly men and their culture has women so low down the pecking order that they didn't bother to try and bring the women to safety too.

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

It's totally different.

This 1000% not everyone fleeing is a refugee either, alot are economic migrants who should go through the usual process and not coming across illegally.

Yes the picture was from UKIP

The Leave campaign let UKIP do the nasty work …. That was obvious while pretending to distance themselves but they knew it was useful

@lookforthesun

The people feeling Ukraine are predominantly women, children and the elderly. They are leaving a very active war zone and the men are staying to fight and defend it.

The people arriving on boats from FRANCE are overwhelmingly male, who have left their women and children behind in war zones and are fleeing...well... France.

They are economic migrants and I'm not saying they don't deserve any sympathy but it is a lot less sympathy in most people's minds when you're trying to leave France than when you're trying to leave Ukraine. Especially when they're mainly men and their culture has women so low down the pecking order that they didn't bother to try and bring the women to safety too.

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

It's totally different.

Not really. Yes, there’s no argument that percentage of small boat arrivals are economic migrants, but not all. There are women, men and children genuinely fleeing persecution. It’s dangerous to making such sweeping statements and shows a lack of understanding and bias on your part.

I should say dipdye that’s frustration at the government not you in my last post

And by travel I should be clear that I don’t mean anything extravagant - a couple of pounds to get the bus to see some different scenery or to get to know your town. By clothes I don’t mean a primark haul, but a couple of t shirts, or a pair of shoes without holes in. Kind of basic human self care stuff.

Unfortunately it’s the same problem that British people on benefits/disability payments can face. Enough to survive, not enough to live.

@lookforthesun

The people feeling Ukraine are predominantly women, children and the elderly. They are leaving a very active war zone and the men are staying to fight and defend it.

The people arriving on boats from FRANCE are overwhelmingly male, who have left their women and children behind in war zones and are fleeing...well... France.

They are economic migrants and I'm not saying they don't deserve any sympathy but it is a lot less sympathy in most people's minds when you're trying to leave France than when you're trying to leave Ukraine. Especially when they're mainly men and their culture has women so low down the pecking order that they didn't bother to try and bring the women to safety too.

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

It's totally different.

my sentiments exactly , iv said and thought this for so long now , these people are already in a safe country , they want to come to the uk for their own purposes

How many have you taken in op?

@Mmmmmmbop90 - the £350 a month goes to the host family to house the refugees not the refugees themselves. We pay for accommodation to house asylum seekers currently in the country and give them money to live on.

@Thecurtainsofdestiny

I don't know, OP. This article says that Scotland took 3500 Syrian refugees since 2014.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/18271303.almost-3-500-syrian-refugees-resettled-scotland-since-2014/

And apparently Scotland has also agreed to take at least 3000 from Ukraine.

It looks similar? But I'm not sure what is happening elsewhere in UK.

Wales has made a conservative guess at 1000 in the first wave, similar to its work with Afghan and Syrian refugees.

But Drakeford has said whilst he wants Wales to be a place of sanctuary, he accepts that many refugees will want to stay close to home, but there is room and we are here to welcome those that wish to come.

Wales looks like to be adding an extra check and support system, such as help with translators, support services to signpost to additional help and school places as part of the ever evolving sponsor scheme.

I am saddened by the racism reported and the polish border and similar. It’s not reducing my support for ukraine but it’s horrid. I hope that the polish boarder guards supposedly involved will be reprimanded- unlike the Ukrainians they are not in danger of their lives. The situation has not been helped by India deciding to advise its citizens to evacuate towards Russia - not the individual citizens fault of course, and also I imagine it will cause disappointment to the Ukrainians that young male migrants to ukraine from other countries are deciding to leave now that Ukraine is not a safe place. - I imagine feelings of “you wanted to come here when it was nice, it gets rubbish and now you wanna leave” predominate amongst Ukrainian men who can’t leave. I do however remember the height of the Syrian crisis and the warm welcome offered by countries like Germany - the welcome banners, handing out of toys to children etc. unfortunately things then turned sour with the New Years sexual assaults in German cities - it’s early days yet - still plenty of time for people to become less welcoming to Ukrainians.

It is human to care more about things that happen to you and your neighbours. My house catching fire - life changing disasterMy neighbours house catching fire - seriously big event, a house in my village on fire - pretty major, a house in a town far away - probably won’t even hear about it. There is also a pretty huge Eastern European population in parts of the UK making links stronger. People are in general more likely to have visited Kiyv for a holiday than Aleppo. There is also the scale - it’s a lot more people on the move, Poland/Moldavia/Hungary will take more than anywhere else but they will need more space than that.

The fact that it is women and children first meets our western moral code. I found the scenes of the Kabul airport horrid and wish we had done so much more , but I did wonder - if it’s the young women who are going to suffer so much why are people not prioritising the evacuation of women and girls - why did we see men fighting over evacuation slots rather than giving them to more vulnerable young females?

In the end the issues of injustice and discrimination etc in any country are not going to be fixed unless the people of that country decide to fight - hopefully politically but if needed literally for them. Men are generally physically stronger and have fewer caring responsibilities and are less vulnerable to sexual violence so they are the default fighters. If the young men of Afghanistan did not want to fight for their country then who should?