Ukranian, welcome! Middleastern, African? Get to back of the bus!

[OldieWordly]

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

@Lotgreenwood128

If you recall, there was another war in Europe not that long ago. People have forgotten it sounds like it. I was living through it as a young child, hiding in my neighbour’s basement from the Serbian warplanes. It's not like that would have helped. I don’t recall the UK being overly welcoming to any of us. We weren’t welcomed to the UK, nor are the Ukrainian refugees today if you read the news. It’s all over the news…Are you annoyed that the UK public is distressed by what’s happening in Europe and making this to be about Ukrainians being white?

honestly? a lot of it is just virtue signalling, control and people jsut want the war to end. Sorry you had to go through war. But IMO if Ukraine fell, and Russia never touched any other country again it would be mission accomplished for the 'UK public'. Or any of Europe.

I do agree with you though I'm unsure if I'd call it outright racism and more 'they are closer to us, therefore they are one of us' mentality.

I do think that sympathy to children from any war torn or impoverished country is pretty standard though.

@Lotgreenwood128

Yes exactly it’s inverse hypocrisy and racism.

@lookforthesun

The people feeling Ukraine are predominantly women, children and the elderly. They are leaving a very active war zone and the men are staying to fight and defend it.

The people arriving on boats from FRANCE are overwhelmingly male, who have left their women and children behind in war zones and are fleeing...well... France.

They are economic migrants and I'm not saying they don't deserve any sympathy but it is a lot less sympathy in most people's minds when you're trying to leave France than when you're trying to leave Ukraine. Especially when they're mainly men and their culture has women so low down the pecking order that they didn't bother to try and bring the women to safety too.

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

It's totally different.

Spot on.

[quote IchabodCrane]@FairyCakeWings probably because the Russian invasion is an attack on NATO. While the Israel invasion on Palestine affects... who else?
I don't agree with any of this fighting but it's not really about skin colour.
It's about money/politics.
And values, and whether people's OWN livelihoods will be affected.

BTW most other countries in the world are happily racist and xenophobic. It's the 'norm'. The UK has many problems, and is also racist etc but compared to other countries... and I'm not talking about Europe![/quote]
I agree that most countries in the world are racist and homophobic, and the UK is better than many. This isn't about pointing figures at the UK, or shaming people into giving up their spare rooms to prove they are not racist. I just think denying that skin colour plays a part in international movement is not useful.

So sad how refugees and their plight are being treated on MN because they’re white.

@BewareTheLibrarians. War IS War, you can make it up as much as you like but it’s all the same in the end.

[quote Gonnagetgoing]@lookforthesun - this. Lots of the black, brown immigrants are on the whole, fit young men with no families, presumably left in their home country, so, economic migrants. And from France or Italy.

The refugees from Ukraine are refugees and fleeing nuclear attack or death by shooting.[/quote]
Exactly. The refugees are women and children. Their men are staying behind to defend their country.

Their men have no choice in the matter tough. They have to stay and fight if able.

[quote LibrariesGiveUsPower]Some actual stats

“Amongst adults, Iran was the top nationality claiming asylum in the UK in 2021, as it has been every year since 2016, with 9,800 applications.
In the year ending September 2021, the top five countries of nationality for asylum applications (from main applicants) were: Iran (6,002), Eritrea (4,412) Albania (4.010), Iraq (3,042) and Syria (2,303).“

www.unhcr.org/uk/asylum-in-the-uk.html[/quote]
Well, anyone care to comment?

@emuloc

Their men have no choice in the matter tough. They have to stay and fight if able.

What do you do in a war…run? Even Ukrainian women have gone back to fight! 💪🏼

@emuloc

Their men have no choice in the matter tough. They have to stay and fight if able.

The male economic migrants are leaving their women and children behind.

We are suffering a severe housing shortage, wait weeks to see a Dr, Local schools full up, months for.help for mental health issues

But how much of that is to do with too many people, and how much to do with cost-cutting, incompetence, and good old contempt for the non millionaires living in this country?

The market town I live in is expanding rapidly into the countryside on three sides. Four new housing estates, another to start construction soon. How many GP surgeries are on these sites? None. Dentists? None. Schools? None. Community centres? None. Just houses. Developers buy up land, throw up houses, rake in their profit, and apparently don't have to give any thought to the infrastructure the new town residents will need. They will have to somehow share our already over-burdened services.

A reply might ask - and where are the teachers and doctors to come from to fill these buildings? Again, cost-cutting, incompetence, contempt. My sister in law is a nurse. For years every time someone leaves a position in her hospital department, the position is advertised but never actually filled. Because it's cheaper to make existing staff take on their work. Might be nice if Boris could hurry up with those NHS Brexit bus checks he was endorsing a few years back, eh?

I read the other day that all big wars star more minor conflicts. Look at WW1. People are worried sick this will escalate. And considering the European history, it might. A lot of family and friends there can’t sleep without worry. Making this war about racism…I was offering my perspective pointing out that white Croatian weren’t welcomed to the UK either.

Predictive text…all big wars start with minor conflicts. Although this won’t be classified as a minor conflict anymore

@Schmz @Papertyger Please see my previous posts to learn see why “young men running away (inference: they’re too scared/lazy/misogynistic to stay)” is NOT what is happening in Syria/Libya/Afghanistan/Iran/Iraq.

@WouldYouIo I think you're right about the simplicity of this conflict being a large part of it. The Ukrainians are the good guys, Russia is the big bad guy. It's very clear what's going on and who our sympathies should be with. Civil wars are much harder tk get your head round.

Hard agree OP!

I think there is discrimination against refugees coming from the Middle East, Africa or Asia. It's also wrong to consider 'most' as economic refugees; some are leaving unimaginable hardship or starvation, persecution or physical danger due to conflict.

The attention given to the Ukrainian war is much higher because it has the potential to lead to a third world war. This will not only have an effect in Europe - the rise in cost of wheat is already impacting negatively on developing countries.

@Tillsforthrills

“I know we can't house the world. However, there should be fairness in the offer of a place in the UK whether temporary or permanently.”

This is incredibly ignorant of you to write, seeing the mess Priti Patel had made with regards to helping Ukrainians come.

You are avoiding my question - please do tell me if you know even roughly how many Syrian refugees were homed here. How many non white refugees there are here. Have you thought about that and do you know the very high number that have been welcomed here, given homes, benefits, jobs?

Eastern European’s have never been welcomed here.

I don't know the figures, but surely if you do why not provide them?

I look forward to them eagerly.

@JanisMoplin ah, but what is 'international movement'?
Do you know that there are 11 countries in the world who don't recognize Israel? Their people's passport reads 'bearer..valid anywhere except for Israel'.
But because they're not Europe or the U.S, they don't count as international?

China & India, which combined have 36% of the world's population haven't risen in anger and outright condemned the invasion. So where is this international movement you speak of?

Politics is a game of allies. The Anglophone countries , spread across multiple continents are allies, and because they hold a lot of power it seems like a huge 'international effort'.

But there's a bigger proportion, in numerical terms of the world that doesn't care and isn't condemning it.

OP you are not alone—I am white but had exactly the same thoughts as you.

The figures are just upthread, Libraries posted them.

People are also missing the point, that the UK is trying to "discourage" refugees seeking illegal travel from continental europe because of risk.

They don't want to actively encourage people to board a dingy and try and cross the English Chanel. We are an island afterall and there's only two ways to get in by air or by sea. Both can be fatal if attempted illegally.

Refugees have always been able to claim asylum in the UK, and their paperwork is processed and so forth like everyone else. Which is why o have spent many a year housing refugee families, and have really taken a lot of happiness from handing them keys to their new home.

The media right now in the UK needs the people to help, so it puts out big media announcements asking for help, Ukrainians will not attempt a illegal channel crossing if they have well publicised routes of transport and access to visas, which has finally (no thanks to Patel) begun. But again this process has been fast tracked because of the volume of people in such a short space of a time, and it's only going to keep getting bigger and bigger as the days go on.

3 million people have not left Syria/Iraq or Afghanistan in a fortnight.

Lots of the boats carrying refugees from the Calais and landing on the south coast have women and children on which puts paid to the idea that its all fit young men. (And so what if there are young men - don't they have a right to live free from persecution? What if that was your son?)

People are calling for a temporary visa office to be set up at calais for Ukrainians because they're being told to go to Paris and that's not fair. There's been no calls previously for visa offices to be set up for the refugees who are waiting at calais for their chance to jump on a lorry or a tiny boat. I wonder what the main difference is between them?