Ukranian, welcome! Middleastern, African? Get to back of the bus!

[OldieWordly]

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

Yeah racism probably factors into it, but I just wish Ireland (North and South) had stayed out of this and worried about their own because this isn't our fight. No one helped us during our 30 year war yet we're constantly welcoming non Irish people into our small country with open arms. I feel for the Ukrainian people and POC who are impacted by war.

We also offered to help house Afghanistan refugees. There's no shame though in identifying more with Ukrainians. It's closer to home, we are part of NATO and the proximity to NATO countries impacts all of us. We will be directly in a war if this isn't managed. There's loads of reasons!

@MangyInseam Oh I agree! It is very difficult. But I do think its something the world (or "the west" or specific countries) could do much better at handling - specifically at providing more ongoing support to the places which receive the first wave of migrants (rather than the usual 6 months of outrage then on to the next thing). At the moment it feels like we operate a kind of obstacle course where a lucky few people who make it pass all the obstacles/the Mediterranean/the Mexican desert are allowed "in" (if we are feeling charitable. It just feels like there must be a better way. Which doesn't mean we should let people drown/push people back over borders since that would be inhumane too.
In that spirit Afghanistan are still facing a humanitarian crisis. and MSF are one of the few charities on the ground providing medical assistance (other charities available).

Yes, long term, just moving people from continent to continent doesn't seem a workable solution.

What with work etc, it has taken me a while to catch up and read all the posts. They have certainly been interesting and thought provoking.

I did think, I would be thoroughly lambasted for expressing how I felt, so I was very pleased to receive the support from so many of you. Thank you.

Also, it was good to seek that despite the differences of opinion, it was mainly expressed civilly and that the thread wasn't taken down (fingers crossed that it stays that way).

So thanks again mumsnetters for the many insightful views, whether you agreed with me or not.

See, not seek.

@emuloc

This thread should not be deleted because it is discussing something that some people find uncomfortable.

Absolutely agree

@OldieWordly

So what do you think now that you have read all the responses?

Do you still think that people who want to help Ukrainian refugees are racist?

Because what I see is:

A lot of resistance among some people to helping refugees from Ukraine using whataboutery style arguments to excuse their indifference.

An ungenerous and inadequate response from our government

Some kind, generous British people offering up their homes to help

The worst refugee crisis in Europe by far since the second world war

A country that desperately needs our support to help look after their vulnerable citizens and children while they fight Putin.

This is massively to our benefit and to that of the rest of the world given that Putin has threatened us with nuclear war.

@DandyMandy

Yeah racism probably factors into it, but I just wish Ireland (North and South) had stayed out of this and worried about their own because this isn't our fight. No one helped us during our 30 year war yet we're constantly welcoming non Irish people into our small country with open arms. I feel for the Ukrainian people and POC who are impacted by war.

Really? Ireland has benefitted massively from EU membership and this is happening right on the EUs doorstep, airstrikes hit 15miles away from our border yesterday. The Polish community although 'non Irish' as you put it make up a huge part of Irish society today, we have been living and working alongside them for years, why would we not help them right now when their generosity has saved around 2million people from war?

Irish people have been emigrating for centuries becoming valuable parts of other countries communities just as the people that choose Ireland as their home are a valuable part of ours.

It isn't our war but the EU is our community, one that has changed the landscape of Ireland for the better since our membership began, it is only right that when then the EU needs help(and Lord knows we have needed enough help from the EU in the past) that we step in and help as best we can.

@RoastedFerret the thing is @DandyMandy knows that it must just be racism rather than compassion causing other Irish people to want to welcome refugees from Ukraine. So actually by that twisted logic the people that don't help any refugees at all from anywhere are morally superior.

I will repeat that it is by far the worst refugee crisis in Europe in our lifetimes. 2.3 million people fled Bosnia over three years. 3 million people have fled Ukraine over 15 days.

100% agree. Empathy is selective, it seems. I can remember the outrage at the thought of Syrians coming to the UK but Ukrainians seem to be welcomed with open arms. What a disgrace.

@Corcory

More recently the refugees and asylum seekers in the UK have not been white European. As of 2020 there where 200,000 here, most of the more recent ones from Syria. I think many people have been wary of some recent asylum seekers partly because many have come from countries where ISIS and other Islamic fundamentalists have in infiltrated them. We have seen people pertaining to be born again Christians blow themselves up and elderly foster carers aghast at what their foster 'child' had done. The government do seem to be dragging their feet in the case of the Ukrainian refugees but I suspect our history of poisonings by Russians and what others have done has given them some anxiety. I'm not sure how many of us would offer to home single men who have been the majority of more recent migrants as apposed to the 100,000 who are offering their homes to Ukrainians today. I am old enough to remember when there was a sudden mass exodus in the 70s when the Ugandan Asians came, people came together offering homes to house them just as is happening today. We didn't discriminate against them because they were Asian, it didn't come into it. So I don't think it's true to say we wouldn't act the same if the Ukranians were of another race.

The Ugandan Asians were a completely different kettle of fish. They tend to be very middle class, Tory-voting and royalist, more British than many Brits! Many of the Asians within the current cabinet (Priti, Rishi, Alok) have that heritage . I don't think you can compare them to the current influx of refugees from the ME beyond the fact that they are POC.

@SommerTen

I said this on another thread just now..

If you want to help all refugees from all over the world who are currently based here or in 'camps' in France, I recommend donating to or volunteering for the registered charity Care4Calais.

Care4Calais yesterday interviewed a young Black Sundanese refugee who was in a freezing tent in Calais where he'd been surviving for months with just 1 tin of tomatoes to eat that day & no access to a doctor, who would like to come to the UK, and compared his situation to a White Ukrainian girl who was put up in a hotel by the French on her arrival in Calais with other Ukrainians, and promised a UK Visa asap.

Not saying she's not deserving.. after all she's left a horrific war behind.. but so have the other refugees from eg Afghanistan or Syria.
The difference is she gets a Visa & will travel to the UK by Eurostar.
The 'others' may drown in a dinghy or get crushed by a lorry, may get here if they're lucky then have to go through the Asylum process in Priti Patel's 'Hostile Environment'.

It's easy to look and think the main factor must be skin colour. But.. what else can it be really??

i know that the migrants in france are living on next to nothing in crap conditons in france , but again this young sudanese refugee wants to come to the uk , why on earth since hes already in france cant he make an application for asylum there , its a safe country he is in and probably a better one than this shithole . macron isnt wrong when he says the uk makes it too easy for them , there must be a reason why when they are already in safe countries that probably have a higher standard of living than the uk they just dont want to know and only getting to the uk will do , they dont have to risk their lives to leave a safe country to come here when they are already in one .

i did read in the news that several years ago when the calais jungle camp was demomlished that the offer was made by the french to the migrants there to be housed properly in hotels around france and put their applications in properly , many of them refused , and wanted to stay put so they could continue to keep trying to get to the uk , and thats the point any sympathy i did feel for how crap it was for them evaporated .

the difference is the french know that there is a war in ukraine , and they cant really disput a ukrainians account of them having to flee ! so yes it stands to reason they are going to accommodate her promptly , but how many of these refugees from africa and the middle east are actually fleeing war or immediate danger , iv seen those calais interviews in the past and there have been young single men extolling the virtues of the uk and how much they want to come here to escape the poverty and lack of work in their own country , nowt about they fled a war , of course thats not true for all of them i know , but the french cant be blamed for disbelieveing them .

there really needs to be a system whereby they are all housed in basic accomodation , not allowed to stay in these makeshift camps and their applications processed quickly so they then are either allowed to stay or they are sent back .

To be fair I'd choose to live in any other European country other than this one if I could. 😂

I was about to move back to Sweden but then pregnancy, young child + Brexit scuppered it all.

I do wonder what they feel is so great about Great Britain. A falling NHS, a austerity driven government, lack of affordable housing and stagnant wages. Police cuts, social services cuts, schools overflowing and oversubscribed due to cuts, no new infrastructure being built to support growing communities, but let's sink billions in to a train track .

Doesn't sound so "great to me" but hey ho, there you go.

@TheSillyMastiff

To be fair I'd choose to live in any other European country other than this one if I could. 😂

I was about to move back to Sweden but then pregnancy, young child + Brexit scuppered it all.

I do wonder what they feel is so great about Great Britain. A falling NHS, a austerity driven government, lack of affordable housing and stagnant wages. Police cuts, social services cuts, schools overflowing and oversubscribed due to cuts, no new infrastructure being built to support growing communities, but let's sink billions in to a train track .

Doesn't sound so "great to me" but hey ho, there you go.

it beats me silly mastiff , honestly it does , one of the greatest ironies of my life is that i was born in canada to canadian parents , when i was 2 .my mum fell in love with an englishman and left my dad who she was very unhappy with to move with me to the uk , she has said she thought england sounded better and she would be happier here than canada

i bear no grudges to her ,she did what she thought was best at the time ,but id be lying if i sometimes over the years and even now think oh if only she had stayed . what was she thinking lol

most countries in europe are better than the uk , leaving aside even the things you have mentioned , its cold ,grey and raining for most of the year and if we are lucky
it might get nice in may june and july before it gets iffy in august and its back to grey drizzle again

if we have a culture im still struggling to work out what it actually is , i dont think we do frankly . we are just english thats it , end of.

if i won a nice few million in the euro lottery id seriously be thinking of being off , either to canada , australia , usa anywhere but this hellhole

I'm brown. It's hard enough flying it of Heathrow without harassment from security despite being a working professional!
I doubt very much people would accept me until their home as easily as the Ukrainians. I'm pleased the Ukrainian people are being helped but really appalled that non white people are yet again set aside. For me the polish peoples treatment of non white refugees has been the absolute worst though.

@Corcory

More recently the refugees and asylum seekers in the UK have not been white European. As of 2020 there where 200,000 here, most of the more recent ones from Syria. I think many people have been wary of some recent asylum seekers partly because many have come from countries where ISIS and other Islamic fundamentalists have in infiltrated them. We have seen people pertaining to be born again Christians blow themselves up and elderly foster carers aghast at what their foster 'child' had done. The government do seem to be dragging their feet in the case of the Ukrainian refugees but I suspect our history of poisonings by Russians and what others have done has given them some anxiety. I'm not sure how many of us would offer to home single men who have been the majority of more recent migrants as apposed to the 100,000 who are offering their homes to Ukrainians today. I am old enough to remember when there was a sudden mass exodus in the 70s when the Ugandan Asians came, people came together offering homes to house them just as is happening today. We didn't discriminate against them because they were Asian, it didn't come into it. So I don't think it's true to say we wouldn't act the same if the Ukranians were of another race.

He was Christian. Why are you disbelieving of that?

@TheSillyMastiff

To be fair I'd choose to live in any other European country other than this one if I could. 😂

I was about to move back to Sweden but then pregnancy, young child + Brexit scuppered it all.

I do wonder what they feel is so great about Great Britain. A falling NHS, a austerity driven government, lack of affordable housing and stagnant wages. Police cuts, social services cuts, schools overflowing and oversubscribed due to cuts, no new infrastructure being built to support growing communities, but let's sink billions in to a train track .

Doesn't sound so "great to me" but hey ho, there you go.

Perhaps because for a lot of us former colonial subjects of Britain we are: educated in English language of workplace is English in many cases our first language is English because of the above we study Wordsworth and Shakespeare in our schools we learn about British history we watch British shows, follow the Premier League and listen to British music

None of the above applies to Germany, even if it is better to live in.

Maybe another question should be why don't countries like Qatar, Saudi, UAE don't do more to welcome their Muslim brother/sisterhood. Look at how many refugees they take, oh that's right - none!

@icelolly12
Then maybe British people should have thought about it before they colonised those countries or asked them to fight alongside them during WW2?

Wow, the overt racists really are coming out from under the skirting boards now, aren't they.

@Duchess379 so many things wrong with your statement. It reads just like a comment in the Daily Mail. As for free housing and money, it can take years for an asylum seeker to get housed in a stable location in the UK and their allowance each week is very low, less than £40 per week which they can only spend in certain items. Hardly a fortune is it! Please do some research as disinformation is damaging as some people will actually believe what your saying!

@OldieWordly

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

I agree. It is something I have noticed too.