Ukranian, welcome! Middleastern, African? Get to back of the bus!

[OldieWordly]

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

How many Ukrainian refugees are the Middle East countries taking in? The rich oil states could take in a lot. Apart from Israel which is taking in 25,000, it doesn't sound like any of the other countries have offered to take in many/any. I wonder why they aren't offering to take in Ukrainian refugees? Probably the same reason Middle Eastern refugees are more likely to be housed by countries nearer to them with similar cultures/religions (i.e. nothing to do with racism as the OP suggests).

I think the media is disgusting. Everyone falling never each other to be crying at anything Ukraine related. I live overseas and work with a lot of Syrian people. I had a friend who had to travel back to get some documents and was gassed to death in a mass attack. Never even raised a side headed sympathy Bob from that lot. Its grotesque.

Why does this have to be about race. For us it is as simple as this we are happy to take in a mother and children and will welcome them to our home. However we would not offer a home to a man who we do not know with small children. For us this has nothing to do with race at all and other families we know offering up their home feel the same. As men are staying in Ukraine I believe this is why so many people are willing to help it has nothing to do with skin colour!

@lonelyapple

How many Ukrainian refugees are the Middle East countries taking in? The rich oil states could take in a lot. Apart from Israel which is taking in 25,000, it doesn't sound like any of the other countries have offered to take in many/any. I wonder why they aren't offering to take in Ukrainian refugees? Probably the same reason Middle Eastern refugees are more likely to be housed by countries nearer to them with similar cultures/religions (i.e. nothing to do with racism as the OP suggests).

Well we have unlimited refuge for Palestinians and a vast project for Syrian immigration. And we didn't cause those wars. You would think the UK may feel a little responsible for Palestinians bloodshed. Again, never even reported.

@WhatTheWhoTheWhatThe

I suspect it’s a lot to do with our fears for our own safety and that this war has the possibility to come to our doorstep. There’s been plenty of hype and fear mongering about Putin and nuclear attacks. The cynic in mean feels that people would be equally as disinterested in the Ukrainians as they are other refugees if they didn’t feel at some level their was personal risk to our own country.

Yes this. Also Ukrainians are unlikely to be suicide bombers or go after students with a knife on London Bridge or drive into revellers at Christmas markets. There is definitely a worry that young men from the Middle East are not genuine refugees and could cause problems. Or that they are economic migrants and not actually fleeing a dangerous situation, in which case people feel they should apply via the proper channels and show that they can benefit this country. It may not be fair, but it's a reason.

There is a level of racism here but it's more complex than that.

I was seriously considering putting my name down to house Ukrainian refugees, until I read quite a disturbing report of the treatment of black and Indian students (little more than kids) on the borders, routinely being pushed to the back of the queue, many of them there for days on end and vendors even refusing to sell them food - saying it was for Ukrainians only. Dug around a bit and this seems pretty widespread - and not reports in red tops - one in the BMJ quoting a Ukrainian minister actually defending this behaviour. He said something along the lines of them setting up a special place where foreigners can go to try and cross so it doesn't cause trouble with the Ukrainians. I realise it's a war situation and I'm not there, but I find these reports inexcusable.

OP I think many people feel WW11 has come back and so have a very particular Fessenden of identity, especially as the Russians were known to have been unbelievably vicious when they ‘liberated’ cities.

For my own part, since reading a lot about this war, I am only just fully truly realising ( rather than feeling dissociated from) what happened in Syria. As for Afghanistan everyone felt helpless at the way the US and U.K. had not prepared the way for getting people out; and also perhaps frustrated that Afghanistan’s leaders and army did not react like the Ukrainians have by trying to resist.

Having looked up Refugees under my local city council, I have found that anyone who would like to help other groups from recent wars might be able to as the council is looking for appropriate accommodation for these groups too.

Not Fessenden. Feeling of identity.

@Ladybyrd

I was seriously considering putting my name down to house Ukrainian refugees, until I read quite a disturbing report of the treatment of black and Indian students (little more than kids) on the borders, routinely being pushed to the back of the queue, many of them there for days on end and vendors even refusing to sell them food - saying it was for Ukrainians only. Dug around a bit and this seems pretty widespread - and not reports in red tops - one in the BMJ quoting a Ukrainian minister actually defending this behaviour. He said something along the lines of them setting up a special place where foreigners can go to try and cross so it doesn't cause trouble with the Ukrainians. I realise it's a war situation and I'm not there, but I find these reports inexcusable.

The behaviour of a few people should not prejudice you against a whole nation. There are racist people in every country.

“Jakie7700

Why does this have to be about race. For us it is as simple as this we are happy to take in a mother and children and will welcome them to our home. However we would not offer a home to a man who we do not know with small children. For us this has nothing to do with race at all and other families we know offering up their home feel the same. As men are staying in Ukraine I believe this is why so many people are willing to help it has nothing to do with skin colour!”

we are happy to take a mother with children

I think you are absolutely right @Jakie7700

It's because of racism. The way to solve it is to understand the cause of racism, but unfortunately the narrative is always "racist = bad person who shouldn't be engaged with or persuaded to see a different point of view, they must be ignored." Which doesn't solve the problem of them being racist in the first place, it just reinforces their views.

The racism is that migrants from Islamic countries are seen as more of a threat than those from a European country. It's true to say that most migrants from an Islamic country won't commit terrorist acts - a fact ignored by racists - but it's also true that all recent terrorist attacks in this country have either been committed by Islamists, or committed in a response to them.

To discourage people from being racist in the face of what, to them, seems like hard evidence, you need to engage with them and persuade them they are wrong.

There's also another fact to consider, that the further someone has travelled to get here, the more likely they have passed through a safe country along the way. Just as Britain is being criticised for not taking its "fair share" of Ukrainians, other countries often prefer the migrants who arrive on their shores to be passing through rather than seeking to stay. Even France for instance, a so-called civilised country like ours, is complicit in allowing migrants to gather on their northern coastline and take a dangerous boat journey across the channel. The French would rather allow that than prevent them because, in their view, whether the migrants succeed or drown, they're no longer a French problem.

Ironically there is also an element of unconscious racism in the people who think that Britain should be doing more to help people from any conflict or area in difficulty to settle here. That's the idea that we're somehow better than everyone else, that people want to come here because this is the best country and we have a responsibility to protect everyone because we're better than they are. Pretty much everyone who has an opinion on this issue is racist in some degree. Without believing your country is better than others, you won't expect people to want to come to live in it.

The behaviour of a few people should not prejudice you against a whole nation. There are racist people in every country.

I'm aware of that. But it certainly didn't sound like the actions of a few. Again, these weren't tabloids. There are many reports from reputable sources.

@Ladybyrd the reports are certainly true. I am originally from India and many Indian students who have returned are reporting this in the local press.

If I was keen to take a Ukrainian refugee though, I would not allow this to stop me.

@bakebeans

We can’t even house people in this country! Overpopulated. The homeless people in this country were given hotel rooms throughout winter during the pandemic then chucked back out afterwards.

Homelessness is a very complex issue, I should know I've worked in this sector for years.

Solving homelessness is not simply giving someone a house. Far from it.

“Zillamop

www.nytimespost.com/mi6-warns-home-secretary-priti-patel-not-to-relax-visa-rules-for-ukrainian-refugees/

The visa situation has been criticised but it's worth mentioning MI6's take on it.“

Thank you for that link @Zillamop
I think the public are thinking of women and children and cannot see the danger of them. But there certainly must be a melting pot.

[quote JanisMoplin]@Ladybyrd the reports are certainly true. I am originally from India and many Indian students who have returned are reporting this in the local press.

If I was keen to take a Ukrainian refugee though, I would not allow this to stop me.[/quote]
Were keen! not was keen. I am not Alan Sugar.

@toomanydogsandcats how does that answer the question as to why not take Ukranian refugees? Why should UK refugee policy have anything to do with whether wealthy Arab states should take in East Europeans? Why are you linking them together?

Perhaps if wealthy Arab states are not putting at least equal effort into proving sanctuary for Ukranians as they did for Palestinians and Syrians, then perhaps they are also racist or being disciminatory due to them being a different religion.

@JanisMoplin I suppose you are right. I see what OP is saying though. We are all prejudiced. 80,000 people are ready to open their homes to white mothers and children, yet there wasn't even a scheme when Russia was using chemical weapons on families in Syria. Or Afghanistan. Because obviously all of those people are radicalised (sarcasm). But then there is the risk that they could be radicalised I suppose. But then so could a Ukrainian. Is it racism, or xenophobia? I do think OP is right. It's so ingrained, we can't even see it anymore.

[quote Gonnagetgoing]@lookforthesun - this. Lots of the black, brown immigrants are on the whole, fit young men with no families, presumably left in their home country, so, economic migrants. And from France or Italy.

The refugees from Ukraine are refugees and fleeing nuclear attack or death by shooting.[/quote]
We have all seen the Ukranian couples parting at train stations, she to take their children to safety, he to go back and fight.And what a fight they are putting up. I think most of us admire and would like to help them.Most of us.

I’m a GP and a while ago we were told that a family of Syrian refugees were joining our list. There were certain things we had to do. We had to assign a specific GP to the family, who they could always see. The family consisted of 5 people, each of whom had medical problems. They each had a half hour appointment with the GP on joining our list, so that was basically one GP’s entire morning surgery. We had to book a translator for the whole morning too.
This was all a requirement from NHS England.
I get frustrated when people say my country isn’t welcoming. I can’t think of a country in the world that would offer me all that for free, whatever hell I’d been through.

Without believing your country is better than others, you won't expect people to want to come to live in it.

It doesn't mean people think there's anything inherently 'better'. But if people from anywhere in the world prefer to head for a country which - unlike their home - isn't currently at war, is a democracy, is not experiencing a natural disaster, isn't currently going through a collapse of infrastructure, etc. then yes, it's a better option than staying put.

[quote Shanghai1]@toomanydogsandcats how does that answer the question as to why not take Ukranian refugees? Why should UK refugee policy have anything to do with whether wealthy Arab states should take in East Europeans? Why are you linking them together?

Perhaps if wealthy Arab states are not putting at least equal effort into proving sanctuary for Ukranians as they did for Palestinians and Syrians, then perhaps they are also racist or being disciminatory due to them being a different religion.[/quote]
What bullshit sixth form reasoning. Dearie me

During my sociology degree we covered "tribal behaviours"

To put bluntly and simply.

White Europeans feel their tribe is under attack so they are more responsive to this.

When Middle Eastern tribes are under attack our tribal leanings mean we think "their tribes should help them" so other middle Eastern nations should help more (which they did).

I know everyone wants to be ultra modern and suppress millennia of basic human behaviour. But you can't, it's a unconscious bias that we have. You can challenge it, but you are unlikely to change it. So round and round in circles you will go because many, many people don't recognise their own unconscious bias.

I remember reading about a Journalist who covered the war in Rwanda. She saw death and terrable suffering. While she found it utterly heartbreaking, she never cried. However, later, when she covering the war in Kosovo, she saw the same horrors but found herself crying every single day. It made her question why she didn't feel the same thing for people going through the exact same horrors.