Ukranian, welcome! Middleastern, African? Get to back of the bus!

[OldieWordly]

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

I agree with you OP.

I think an element of it is how surprising it seems to be. We are accustomed to peace in Europe, and now that that peace is gone the cultural memory of the world wars is resurfacing and people are shaken.

On the other hand, unfortunately, conflict in the Middle East and Africa sadly feels like the norm, almost humdrum, and so doesn't garner the same attention. When very unusual things happen, like the stranded Chilean miners or the group of Thai boys stuck in a cave, there is usually a great outpouring of interest and support worldwide.

I'm not denying that there's an element of unintentional racism to it, of people empathising more with those who are culturally and in appearance more like them - I think that's a big part of it too - I'm just proposing the above as an additional factor.

Obviously that doesn't mean it's right.

We can’t even house people in this country! Overpopulated.
The homeless people in this country were given hotel rooms throughout winter during the pandemic then chucked back out afterwards.

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil
You are right OP. The way this war has been covered in the media and the response of the public compared to other wars will be taught as case studies in history lessons and social studies in years to come.
this‘

As what, the most excellent propaganda campaign, that lulled the public into a belief that they helped refugees when they didn’t?

@Walkaround

It is not completely abnormal to feel a greater responsibility for refugees from ones own continent - there are far greater economic and cultural ties to nearby countries than distant ones where people live lives very different from ones own. Note that even in the case of fellow European countries, the closer your country is to the country refugees are fleeing from, the greater the sense of responsibility to help them and accommodate them in vast numbers. I doubt anyone in the UK would expect to take in as many Ukrainian refugees as Poland or Hungary do, for example. Also, the current intention is that Ukrainian refugees will be able to go home in the not too distant future to a democratic country, and not expect settle in other European countries forever. Afghanistan and Syria, on the other hand, are expected to remain places no sane person would want to return to in the foreseeable future, so not somewhere refugees are likely to be desperate to go back to within the next three years. Also, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a far more obvious and direct threat to European stability than wars and troubles on other continents, so there is a considerably greater degree of self-interest, not just selflessness, in helping Ukrainians.

This is well put, and I agree with it all

UK has approved less than 2k visa applications.

See this is it. Over 2million people have fled Ukraine and the UK have approved about 2k visas. People on threads including this one have branded them racist, neo nazis. There's been lots of we are full up, no room etc. Where exactly is this better treatment, like actual things being done?

There was lots of coverage, lots of collecting items, some pledging of rooms, some hand wringing about Syria too.

Really when it all comes down to it you are starting a thread moaning about a handful of temp work visas because this is what the 'support' for refugees that you are talking about boils down to, visas for 0.1% of refugees that have fled. If you were translating that to Syrian refugees that fled to Europe last year that would be 63 work visas for Syrians?

Refugees and migrants aren’t the same so don’t compare those.

Lots of people wanted to help Afghanistan but I do agree the media reporting has been different. Maybe this is how war should be reported. It also feels more real as there’s a chance we could end up involved whereas in Syria and Afghanistan we were a step away with confidence there’d be no bombing attacks on us. That’s not how this war feels. I’m not saying race isn’t one factor but I think there’s more to it with NATO and our relationship with Ukraine.

https://www.nytimespost.com/mi6-warns-home-secretary-priti-patel-not-to-relax-visa-rules-for-ukrainian-refugees/

The visa situation has been criticised but it's worth mentioning MI6's take on it.

Believe me if a Belarusian mafia leader or Ukrainian hardened criminal was that desperate to enter the UK they have already got a fake/ borrowed passport and done so. They haven’t suddenly acquired the ability to produce fake Ukrainian passports, and only Ukrainian ones, because of a war. They’d produce an EU one as it’s far easier to just enter on a Lithuanian/ Romanian one that piss around with temporary visas.

Just distraction isn’t it

[quote VisaQuestions]@WellThatsMeScrewed my male family members can’t flee. Martial law prevents them crossing the border.
It’s not just a case of wanting to stay to fight or it being a bit safer in Ukraine. Ukrainian mother’s aren’t any more keen on seeing their sons shot in the name of patriotism believe me. They’re not all eager to be in a war zone, despite the propaganda.[/quote]
I’m so sorry my post was massively insensitive. I hope that all is well with your family. ❤️

@VisaQuestions -

@WellThatsMeScrewed thank you for a reassuring reply. I’m in a very paranoid headspace with everything flying around.

To rephrase my post in a more sensitive way.

Many of the ‘men’ we see coming from ME/Africa are often actually young boys. The suspicion that is aimed at them is deeply unfair (and I believe a result of revising). Through my work I’ve listened to the stories of 16 year old boys having to watch friends die as they try to get to the U.K. and then have to battle a system that is utterly hostile to them. Why do they not get the same treatment as women and smaller children? They are still children.

Racism not revising

@VisaQuestions I hope this makes my argument clearer.

I think if you look hard enough you will find problems with everything.
Uk has hardly been opening their arms to the Ukrainians...basically just letting families in.i think so fat 2000 people...Poland have taken in 2 million.
Ukraine is geographically our neighbour...Syria and Afghanistan have their own neighbours...how many countries do they pass through on route to the UK.
Ukrainians don't want to stay in the uk...plan is to go back when war is over and most of them are staying in Poland or Moldova.
Coverage is more as it has a direct impact on the uk. Russia dropped a bomb 20km from Poland...20 km closer uk will be involved in a war.

@WellThatsMeScrewed

NOt read the whole thread but to those saying the men are staying to fight unlike the ‘other’ men. Jesus have you no imagination? No concept of what people are fleeing from?

If I was in a situation where my son was going to get shot because of his beliefs, religion, anything I would do what I could to get him out of that.

Some of the comments just shows people total lack of knowledge about what is happening in countries across the world and how utterly privileged we are to live in a place of safety.

This.

I’m just going to say one last thing.

We live in a fucked up world to even be having this discussion.

It makes me so sad.

What is the point of threads like this?
For some people to call others thick racists?
For some people to say "look over there at all the nasty racist people"
Is that it?

.

Hi I am ethnically Indian. I have signed up to host refugees from Ukraine and my family hosted refugees from the Sri Lankan civil war some years ago. Firstly it is much more important that you do something for refugees rather than worry about racial motivation. I am not more inclined to host because these refugees are white. I see mothers and children in desperate need and I want to help. If the upshot of this is that we all understand a little more of what it means to leave your homeland under severe threat to life then I think that is a positive outcome. It is reasonable to say that the UK has somewhat dragged its heals on refugees generally. But it is still a welcoming place and few of the tamils who came as refugees have regretted coming.

What hurts me the most about the discussion is that other people’s actions are impacting the care people believe my family should receive.

I have cared. 16 years of teaching classes with refugees, doing what I could and also as a school leader. Raising collections, working with social workers, funding school dinners etc through various ways such as PTA funds. It has genuinely upset me to see any child suffer.

I don’t even read the anti-immigration news.

But I feel like now, when I say ‘we are Ukrainian’ I’m viewed as a racist nasty person who deserves to be ignored.

I know I could do more don’t get me wrong, I’m not the perfect anti-racist and I’ve made mistakes I’m sure. But I have always strived to be better than the year before, learn and do better.

And I really haven’t seen this magical support for my family either. Most have stayed in Ukraine, our child and husband are homeless in Poland.

Also, we plan to leave the UK. None of us will be bothering the UK long term I promise

I think it helps the image of the Ukrainians that they are following the rules wrt entry. When they were turned away at Calais they sought alternatives rather than paying smugglers to being them over on their own terms. They recognise the importance of respecting the country's right to make the decision in their own time instead of forcing anybody's hand. That in itself, makes them worthy of more respect. France may be unpleasant for the immigrant but it doesn't bite and careering your way out illegally is not morally justifiable.