Ukranian, welcome! Middleastern, African? Get to back of the bus!

[OldieWordly]

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

i wonder if some of the willingness to help ukrainians isnt maybe so much to do with the fact they are white , but it comes down to religion .
as in islam , im betting more than a few english people associate it with extremism and terror attacks , maybe this does have some reluctance towards refugees from middle east / african countries , whereas ukrainians are seen as more safe , they have their own culture sure , but they are catholic / christan predominatly so people see them as safe so to speak

Hi OP, I agree that the contrast really grates, and the 'why did young men run from Syria rather rhan fight'? line is really cynical. Syria is a civil war and they risked being pressed into the army to shoot fellow Syrians. Very different situation.

I can tell you though that Hungarian friends of mine were brilliant when I contacted them out of the blue, asking if they could help an African friend of a friend who had fled from Charkiv to Budapest.

They have now helped several African refugees with accommodation and transport and are glad to do so. There are good people out there.

@Alonelonelylonersbadidea

I agree completely *@OldieWordly* . It makes me angry with myself as I find myself subconsciously reacting badly to any news item about Ukraine now as I'm so irritated by the double speak. I feel like the media is brainwashing me and I am finding it harder and harder to discern truth and hard facts. Just the language used is frustrating and emotive.

I feel great shame and despair when I think of how shitty refugees and other desperate people who are not from Europe have been treated.
One of my best friends was a Kurdish refugee and is now a proud Briton who loves the UK, and yet I despair of us all.

That's how I feel. Despair at the war and the misery and cruelty inflicted on the Ukranian citizens. But I am also despairing of the media coverage of 'deserving' people escaping a war zone.

I'm also feeling very uncomfortable with the images being shown in the news. Since when was it acceptable to regularly show close ups of dead bodies in news reports? And the image of the pregnant woman on a stretcher that later died along with her baby, is so sorrowful. I have to try and stop watching as I beginning to feel like a voyeur when seeing such images and when a reporter asks yet another family suffering in a bomb shelter 'How do you feel about what is happening' or someone on a train 'will you miss your husband?' when he has to stay behind to fight, I want to shout at the TV.

So, it is not only race, there are other concerns as well.

@chaosrabbitland

i wonder if some of the willingness to help ukrainians isnt maybe so much to do with the fact they are white , but it comes down to religion . as in islam , im betting more than a few english people associate it with extremism and terror attacks , maybe this does have some reluctance towards refugees from middle east / african countries , whereas ukrainians are seen as more safe , they have their own culture sure , but they are catholic / christan predominatly so people see them as safe so to speak

Christianity is the majority religion in Africa now.

Maybe it makes me sexist or ageists but I do have an internal hierarchy of refugees- based on the most vulnerable first, and those most able to save themselves last - kinda who would you help out of a burning building first kinda thing - something like this:

Children and babies of both sexes
The elderly and sick of both sexes
Pregnant women
Women
Men

That makes no reference to race, however if race/nationality was a vulnerability then it would change - Yadhizi (sp) young women more vulnerable to evacuate from Islamic state than the elderly perhaps

There was a massive response to the Afghan situation, and people wanting to help there too.

Personally I think it comes down to the shock factor.

People think omg wars happen bad stuff happens (far away) in Syria, parts of Africa, etc. But out of the blue in Europe (closer) bombing and indiscriminate violence and mass murder ... it's the shock of it happening, and so close to home.

It's not to do with the colour of the refugees. It's all about the proximity of violent threat.

Having seen the racism experienced by POC trying to leave the Ukraine.. I totally understand it!

@lookforthesun

The people feeling Ukraine are predominantly women, children and the elderly. They are leaving a very active war zone and the men are staying to fight and defend it.

The people arriving on boats from FRANCE are overwhelmingly male, who have left their women and children behind in war zones and are fleeing...well... France.

They are economic migrants and I'm not saying they don't deserve any sympathy but it is a lot less sympathy in most people's minds when you're trying to leave France than when you're trying to leave Ukraine. Especially when they're mainly men and their culture has women so low down the pecking order that they didn't bother to try and bring the women to safety too.

Boat loads of young fit men, leaving women behind to be raped and die in their country or origin.

It's totally different.

This.

lookforthesun

Totally agree with what you say, I have the greatest respect for the bravery of the Ukrainian men who are staying and fighting , and making sure that there women and children and old people are able to leave.

Also most Ukrainian refugees will want to go home and rebuild there home land.

This is totally different.

I would not ignore, however, my thoughts are that white communities MAY feel that they have more in common with someone of their own ethnicity and broadly similar cultural preferences.

@OldieWordly

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

Why make everything about supposed racism? It's not because Ukrainians'look like us' it's because they are going through a horrific crisis and people want to help. Leave off with your moaning

I do agree @OldieWordly
I mentioned it earlier to dp. I know there's practical reasons to be more lenient, we need workers, but it's not fair.

@Maze76 - no one is claiming to be unsafe in France as far as I can understand.

I also don’t accept the argument that Syria is different because Syrians were having to fight Syrians - Putins whole justification for this madness is that they are the same nationality- the “separatist states” in the east - in many places it is Ukrainian fighting Ukrainian. So many Ukrainians are Russian speaking as a birth language, have family in Russia, may themselves be Russian by birth settled in Ukraine in the USSR period, many follow the Russian Orthodox Church rather than the Ukraine Catholic one. I don’t think that the people of Ukraine see Russians as “other”.

@Maze76 - are you claiming you personally saw racism towards poc in Ukraine?

@Cbtb you would be very wrong about that. There is a Russian minority in Ukraine (some of which support the invasion, many don’t) but it’s a minority. The war in Ukraine is not a civil war but an invasion by another country.

@Figmentofmyimagination

I think it also helps to have a talented and media savvy president who knows when to channel Churchill and Henry V. He is an extraordinarily brave man and a terrific asset who helps people to see this war as a battle between the forces of good and evil.

Yes, plus Putin could not look much more like Voldemort if he tried.

@lookforthesun @Feelingoktoday

Do you know what could have happened to those “boatloads of fit young men” if they’d stayed?

CONTENT WARNING
One of the people I worked with left his country when his mother and aunt paid all their savings for him to leave when he was 16. The trigger was his older brother refusing to join the militia and having his throat cut by the militia in the street in front of their house because of this. The reason his mum and female cousins didn’t “leave” was because they sought refuge in a neighbouring country - closer, so less risky journey. He couldn’t join them as the same militia would cross/check the border and “hunt” for the males. They had to spend all their money to get him to safety as in that situation he was the most vulnerable.

But still. “Boat loads of fit young men”.

I find that a lot of white people and some brown people ( like priti patel) don’t ‘see racism’ unless it’s the kkk walking around in white sheets! They’ll make excuses instead off just calling a spade a spade. Because to them there is little to no racism.

What worries me is that the Ukraine has a neo nazi problem and this will now be imported in to the UK. It has the potential to make lives of non whites hell. And white British people are fully aware and are doing what they can to facilitate this.

@Villagewaspbyke sorry I was a bit unclear. It’s totally an invasion.

I guess I meant that while Russia is evil and Putin is evil the individual Ukrainian does not think the Russian they are fighting is evil. They are not saying “I can’t fight because I might have to shoot my cousin” some of them sadly will probably be fighting relatives. The scenes of captured Russian troops being given phones to call their mothers shows that.

OP, hope you’re ok.
It’s really hard to exist to notice that your mere existence by default is valued less.
It’s probably not the best approach but I feel it’s safer to dissociate yourself as much you can tbh,
Donate to causes that can help them flee, etc, but it takes a mental toll.
I don’t know how this thread has gone but for my own mental health, I don’t read through. Previous threads have had a lot of people saying it’s not the time to focus on the treatment of Black/Brown people ( less valuable I guess).

Take care OP.

@chaosrabbitland I don’t discount that there is general islamaphobia in the uk but I think the fact that the Syrian war was a bloody civil war between a number for groups, several of which were terrifying Islamic terrorists groups probably had something to do with why people were worried about terrorism. Rather than because of skin colour of the fighters.

@OldieWordly

The war in Ukraine is truly horrendous, but so are all the wars happening all around the world. It is happening in Europe, a place this country is geographically and culturally a part of. So we can emphasise more with the Ukranians and hence the outpouring of support.

But it also helps that they are white and look like the majority of this country, and therefore more support is volunteered.

Why do I as a black woman, while feeling great empathy and sorrow, also feel that other asylum seekers also fleeing war and destruction in their home countries, have been relegated to the back of the bus?

Where are the offers of a sponsored home from UK individuals/families and reimbursement of £350 a month? The right to live in the UK for up to 3 years? The right to work, or to immediately access benefits if needed?

Many of you may say, it's not about skin colour, ethnicity etc, it's about humanity. But tell me, why do so many of us black, brown or non white people often have a feeling of being treated subconciously as belonging at the back of the bus? And the welcome given to Ukranian refugees as apposed to those from Syria troubles me greatly.

I'm with you OP.