To confront a friend who is showy about not having kids?

[fmac2987]

I have a 2 year old DD and am expecting our second in 8 weeks.

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children.

Its not like I had it easy. 4 losses followed by IVF and we were lucky enough to be successful with IVF, and even luckier still to be having another. But I am struggling hard with the terrible twos and perinatal depression and she knows it.

Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) but I feel like its salt in the wound right now.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

I really don't know how to manage this.

Is it unreasonable to back away from this weird situation?

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children

They didn’t ‘decide’. It was decided for her.

No non-parent wants to listen to parents going on about terrible twos etc. It’s just boring. Before I became a parent I was agog at the endless banal conversations about the sticky minutiae of child rearing. (Of course I did it all myself in due course…)

But someone who has really struggled and been left to come to terms with not being able to have a child presumably especially doesn’t want to hear it.

Meanwhile she is not at a stage where she can be generous and encompassing of your problems.

So you may have to let the friendship lapse. But try to do so without blame or anger.

So you think it’s fine to off load all your problems with parenting and pregnancy to a friend who really wanted, but can’t have children and you think she’s the one being insensitive because she sends you pictures of herself in the bath with a glass of wine. Think you need to take a look in the mirror when it comes to who is the one rubbing salt in the wound. As your children grow, you will get your freedom back. Your friend will never get the opportunity to have a child though. How self-centred can you be?

I think she’s probably in pain and it’s her way of making herself feel a bit better about some positives. TBH, if you’re struggling re children and pregnancy and she’s had struggles re children and pregnancy, the kindest thing you can do for each other is to simply talk about other things in your lives and stop updating each other on anything related to having / not having children because she doesn’t want to hear about your children and you don’t want to hear about her lack of them. Nobody is in the wrong, probably. You just have very different lives at the moment and each reminds the other of something uncomfortable.

And I also can understand that if someone has had failed IVF and no children, it’s going to be emotionally difficult to keep hearing from someone whose IVF worked and who now has two children but is complaining about it the terrible twos. I know you’ve had depression, but she will just be hearing a very lucky woman moaning about how hard it is, and that’s the bit that’s not easy for you to understand because you don’t feel lucky to have PND.

Have you ever let on that the pics annoy you ? It sounds like she must know that it annoys you, seeing as she accused you of being jealous.

I'd be interested to hear her version

Maybe she feels you're insensitive sharing your difficulties with her, knowing that she had been so keen to have a family

Op you could have always have wine in the bath as well. Give your kid to your partner and indulge

I remember when I was in the middle of yet another cycle of IVF, I visited a friend who had a baby and a toddler, which was obviously very tiring for her. By pure chance I was wearing nail varnish that matched the colour of my earrings, and she commented on it, and said “you’ve got too much time on your hands”. I nearly cried. It was true - I did have lots of spare time, and she was exhausted, but I would have given everything I had to be in her position. I didn’t say anything though.

It was strange because she’d been so supportive, one of my best friends.

But sadness makes people selfish, and at that moment, all I could see was my childlessness, and all she could see was her exhaustion.

Luckily for our friendship my IVF did eventually work, so our friendship is still strong. But I’ll never forget how I felt that day, and I’ve made a point of never ever moaning about child-related issues to my childless friends, or commenting on their seemingly endless free time.

OP I think if you want to preserve this friendship you’ll both have to tread carefully and work hard at it.

@fmac2987

OP, your going to get a lot of people on any thread like this who are overly defensive and get their heckles up at any perceived criticism of something a childless/free woman does. Dollars in your doughnuts they are very similar in every day attitude to her and have issues surrounding the issue of children.

She’s obviously got a complex about you and kids in general, it’s that simple. Step away from the relationship.

she... sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain

This struck me as a weird thing to say, and oddly patronising. Difficult to judge without more examples and knowing the context in which they were said (eg the wine in bath pic could be v normal, innocuous thing to share or a bit insensitive if it was in context of you sharing how much you’re struggling with toddler).

But perhaps she’s just finding positives in the life that she has? Would you sharing pictures of your kids and talking about happy moments as a family be insensitive?

It’s difficult to tell without more concrete information to what extent your friend has been knowingly insensitive, and to what extent this is your interpretation and you’re projecting this perceived jealousy onto her. You say yourself you’re finding it difficult being confronted with her lifestyle right now while you’re struggling with elements of parenthood. So, I mean she’s not exactly wrong about you being jealous in that regard.

As to your question about whether you should back off – that’s entirely up to you. You don’t have to pursue a friendship you’re not enjoying. But it sounds like your friend isn’t wrong that you’ve backed off because you find it hard to hear about her lifestyle. You’ve said as much yourself.

Op you could have always have wine in the bath as well. Give your kid to your partner and indulge

Did you miss the part where OP mentions she is 7 months pregnant?

Hang on. You were the one who backed off first and hence by doing so, you criticised her choices/lifestyle. She challenged you and you got the hump.

I don't understand why you were offended by a photo of her in the bath so backed off. You can take a bath when you are pregnant and have children, you know.

Would you prefer it if she were crying over the phone to her every night, telling you how lucky you are?

Anyone who has had children without difficulty and not had to deal with infertility will never know or understand the depths of pain or grief of those who have. The OP should find other mothers to talk to about her difficulties and tend to her own mental health. People shouldn't judge either of these 2 people harshly. To say that this childless woman has "issues" about children or "kidded herself" about wanting children shows a real lack of understanding of fertility issues. Anyone who has had IVF etc is not "kidding" around... It's no joke.

And i realise the OP had IVF herself. Im talking about all the posters...

You feel that she is being unkind so you've tried to back away for a while to protect the friendship.

She is now goading you so there's not much you can do to protect the friendship.

Yo need to decide whether you can have a frank conversation and then repair the friendship. If it's a lost cause, just back away.

Of course it’s coming from a place of pain. It’s not a pain you’re ever going to understand. Choose another friend to whinge about your kids to. It can’t be that shit or you wouldn’t be having another in quick succession, presumably.

YABU you chose to have children, it’s hard but it was your choice. I find listening to someone moan about their DC incredibly boring and I’m not childfree.
I agree with PP that there’s always an expectation for child free people to tone down their lives to avoid offending those with kids. Why should they underplay the freedom and money it gives them. And the assumption childfree people are just jealous is ridiculous

@Sarahcoggles

I remember when I was in the middle of yet another cycle of IVF, I visited a friend who had a baby and a toddler, which was obviously very tiring for her. By pure chance I was wearing nail varnish that matched the colour of my earrings, and she commented on it, and said “you’ve got too much time on your hands”. I nearly cried. It was true - I did have lots of spare time, and she was exhausted, but I would have given everything I had to be in her position. I didn’t say anything though.

It was strange because she’d been so supportive, one of my best friends.

But sadness makes people selfish, and at that moment, all I could see was my childlessness, and all she could see was her exhaustion.

Luckily for our friendship my IVF did eventually work, so our friendship is still strong. But I’ll never forget how I felt that day, and I’ve made a point of never ever moaning about child-related issues to my childless friends, or commenting on their seemingly endless free time.

OP I think if you want to preserve this friendship you’ll both have to tread carefully and work hard at it.

This is the best answer yet imo.

They didn’t ‘decide’. It was decided for her.

This. And then she has "friends" moaning about her on the internet.

I don't think you realise how overtly people judge women who 'decide' not to have children.

You're struggling, but so might she be. I think you just need to back off a bit.

@Sarahcoggles

I remember when I was in the middle of yet another cycle of IVF, I visited a friend who had a baby and a toddler, which was obviously very tiring for her. By pure chance I was wearing nail varnish that matched the colour of my earrings, and she commented on it, and said “you’ve got too much time on your hands”. I nearly cried. It was true - I did have lots of spare time, and she was exhausted, but I would have given everything I had to be in her position. I didn’t say anything though.

It was strange because she’d been so supportive, one of my best friends.

But sadness makes people selfish, and at that moment, all I could see was my childlessness, and all she could see was her exhaustion.

Luckily for our friendship my IVF did eventually work, so our friendship is still strong. But I’ll never forget how I felt that day, and I’ve made a point of never ever moaning about child-related issues to my childless friends, or commenting on their seemingly endless free time.

OP I think if you want to preserve this friendship you’ll both have to tread carefully and work hard at it.

This is sage advice.

@WorraLiberty

Could she perhaps feel as though you're making a massive point by talking so much about your parental struggles?

Rightly or wrongly, becoming a parent does change friendships and sometimes we forget out DC/struggles isn't the only topic of conversation.

It does sound as though somewhere along the line, you two have lost your way together. Possibly because she finds it hard to support you due to her own infertility.

These were my thoughts too and I think PP saying she's a C**t is a bit much!

Why should they underplay the freedom and money it gives them. And the assumption childfree people are just jealous is ridiculous

I tend to underplay because I got sick of the sneering and the judgement. And because most of my emotional energy in my late 30s & 40s was diverted towards trying to sort out my feelings and be at peace with what seemed to be my "decision."

Hint: it wasn't a decision I made deliberately. It was made for me.

@PinkSyCo

Op you could have always have wine in the bath as well. Give your kid to your partner and indulge

Did you miss the part where OP mentions she is 7 months pregnant?

@PinkSyCo Yeah I did. Oh well, never mind Op you’ll have to wait a couple of months

@BobbinHood

Of course it’s coming from a place of pain. It’s not a pain you’re ever going to understand. Choose another friend to whinge about your kids to. It can’t be that shit or you wouldn’t be having another in quick succession, presumably.

@BobbinHood exactly!

I think it's like with anything in life. Everyone should be able to share what they're up to and happy about, without judgments from others.

Timing is key. If I am on the brink of bankruptcy, it's insensitive if my friend sends me a pic of her new Ferrari.