To confront a friend who is showy about not having kids?

[fmac2987]

I have a 2 year old DD and am expecting our second in 8 weeks.

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children.

Its not like I had it easy. 4 losses followed by IVF and we were lucky enough to be successful with IVF, and even luckier still to be having another. But I am struggling hard with the terrible twos and perinatal depression and she knows it.

Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) but I feel like its salt in the wound right now.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

I really don't know how to manage this.

Is it unreasonable to back away from this weird situation?

Ah OP, sounds like a tricky situation. I suspect on both sides there's sensitivity around it- given her history I suspect she's trying to come to terms with not being able to have children (because she wanted them, not because I think all women want them or anything); and of course as you're struggling at the moment things probably seem more triggering. Although you need support at the moment perhaps she's not the right person to talk about it with currently. Personally I wouldn't let it ruin a friendship, I'd take some space and talk to them if you think it'd help.

Sounds like a coping mechanism to me.

She’s jealous and trying to spoil it for you. Friends don’t do that. The friendship is already over…

For closure, as she isn’t letting you just drift away, I would call her out on it and say “look I know we’re in different situations now, but you making negative comments about my life all the time is just rude and not the actions of a friend - I think maybe we’ve grown apart.”

@Thewindwhispers
Or why not in-response to pics of her life tell her it looks great? Because wine in the bath is great as are lots of aspects of a child free life. Just in the same way that lots of aspects of life with kids is great. There’s no right or wrong way to live your life. Just be happy for her and try to be happy for yourself Op too…things are tough now but hopefully they will get better

@Thewindwhispers

She’s jealous and trying to spoil it for you. Friends don’t do that. The friendship is already over…

For closure, as she isn’t letting you just drift away, I would call her out on it and say “look I know we’re in different situations now, but you making negative comments about my life all the time is just rude and not the actions of a friend - I think maybe we’ve grown apart.”

Op hasn't said her friend is doing any of that.

And surely we could also say that a friend (op) wouldn't try and make someone feel bad for enjoying their own life.

one-upmanship

Not sure whose winning or why either of you care

I wouldn't ever complain about
My children to people who wanted and haven't been able to have kids.

As a parent, I know your how you feel. But surely your friends pain and loss is unimaginable

Kids grow up and leave and and time moves quickly. Dont push her away

@ManateeFair

I’ve never quite understood why it’s OK for parents to talk about their kids and how precious they are and to share pictures of them all the time depicting the nicer side of parenting, but not OK for someone without kids to talk about all the amazing things they get to do with their freedom and show the nicer side of being child-free. Are people meant to hide the grownup stuff they do in case people with kids get envious?

Is your friend openly stating that she is showing off about not having kids? If she sends a photo in the bath with a glass of wine, is it captioned “Just unwinding! This is the life” or is it captioned “Look at me, doing this stuff because I don’t have kids!” Because there is a very big difference.

It is ok, no one is saying it isn't. But timing is important. If I have confided in a friend that is had a terrible day I would be unimpressed if their answer was oh I've had a fantastic day.

Not rocket science, just courtesy and basic social skills.

OP who knows why she is behaving like this, I don't think it is fair to assume she is jealous but whatever it is, it's not working for you.

Back away slowly.

Nothing to be gained from flogging a dead horse.

I have a friend who is the same. She's posting her life like I am. You sound jealous. It's not easy being a parent. After 12 years (3 children) life is becoming more fun!!

I don't really understand why it's so offensive to be pleased to be child-free in front of someone struggling with terrible twos and perinatal depression, or at least why it's worse than being visibly pleased with any area of your life in front of anyone struggling with any area of theirs. The things are unrelated - in fact, I think it's pretty offensive to imply, as people seem to be doing, that someone with perinatal depression must actually wish they had no children at all.

Why would it be salt in the wound? What wound? You got your children. She didn't. I'm pretty sure, as hard as things are for you right now, you wouldn't swap situations with her. So stop complaining about your children to a friend who would love to be in your position.

Only parents are allowed to show off, that's what it all boils down to...anyone else is bragging or shoving their freedom down parents throats. You have what your friend wanted (maybe still wants) and yet you begrudge her even having a pic of herself enjoying a bath (it's weird to me but then most people show off on social media it's basically the whole purpose now). I honestly don't know how that can upset or offend you! There must be more to the story, again need specific examples but have a feeling OP isn't coming back.

[quote LuckySantangelo35]@PriamFarrl
Very good point. Child free women are judged all the time. They must be infertile or unmaternal or shallow or selfish or unnatural or secretly in denial that deep down they really want kids, etc etc etc[/quote]
And notice as well how men are never called childless or child free.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

The real issue is that her friend implied that she "has a life" as opposed to the OP, who apparently doesn't.

Now that's nasty. Both of them "have lives", they're just different and it sounds as if the friend is looking down on the OP's lifestyle with children - or suggesting it's crap. Again, that's nasty. Real friends don't put each other down like that. I'd steer clear of someone who made comments like that.

@BankingOnChange

saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life

She's clearly the one who's bitter and jealous...people who love their life don't come out with comments like this. I'd feel sorry for her but wouldn't put up with constant comments either and would step away from this friendship.

I'd message back 'Hi x. I'm sorry you feel like that. I'm pleased you're so happy with things and don't want to argue with you. But I'm busy and have a lot going on right now which I need to focus on. Wishing you all the best'.

Great reply!

@Cameleongirl

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

The real issue is that her friend implied that she "has a life" as opposed to the OP, who apparently doesn't.

Now that's nasty. Both of them "have lives", they're just different and it sounds as if the friend is looking down on the OP's lifestyle with children - or suggesting it's crap. Again, that's nasty. Real friends don't put each other down like that. I'd steer clear of someone who made comments like that.

I think it depends how you interpret it and what she meant. Is she implying the OP doesn't have a life or is she saying I have a life TOO just without children and you don't like it.

@Babyvenusplant
It’s a terrible reply! You’re basically cutting her off and ending the friendship when you really don’t need to

@Firefly1987

Only parents are allowed to show off, that's what it all boils down to...anyone else is bragging or shoving their freedom down parents throats. You have what your friend wanted (maybe still wants) and yet you begrudge her even having a pic of herself enjoying a bath (it's weird to me but then most people show off on social media it's basically the whole purpose now). I honestly don't know how that can upset or offend you! There must be more to the story, again need specific examples but have a feeling OP isn't coming back.

The best evidence of this is the way that childless weddings are talked about on MN. I once pointed out that if I’d spent ten years shelling out on pregnancy gifts, baby showers, newborn gifts, 1st birthday cake smashes, child birthdays etc - then it would be lovely if people could respect my wish to have a childfree wedding without calling me self-obsessed and shallow. I got ripped a new one by people saying that nobody had the right to exclude their children from my wedding.

@LuckySantangelo35

Depends if you still wanted her as a friend though? Doesn't sound likes she's much of one to op

Urgh yes the vitriol displayed towards child free weddings definitely shows the way in which child free people are judged and looked down upon by those with kids

I've been where your friend is and it hurts. I can't tell you in words as there no words for the pain. I made excuses...don't want children. Luck happened for me but ive friends it didn't. Please back away and give her some space. She doesn't sound in s good place now.

[quote Babyvenusplant]@LuckySantangelo35

Depends if you still wanted her as a friend though? Doesn't sound likes she's much of one to op[/quote]
@Babyvenusplant
I guess we’ve only heard one side of the story though. Has OP been sending pics of her kid, baby scan etc to her friend?

OP You seem to have forgotten the pain of infertility. She’s trying to live her life the best she can. I’m talking from experience after three years of TTC, failed IVF, miscarriage and still trying. I think you could remember how you felt in the dark times of infertility including how you felt about others who complained about how difficult life was with children as you sat in the deafening silence of your home aching for a baby inside yourself. Ok not saying you aren’t suffering depression. But it is temporary. The pain of not being able to have a child never truly ends. And I think it’s distasteful (particularly since you must understand the desire) to punish her for it.

Sorry all, to clarify, we're so aware of her journey and that she had a tough time. As someone who went through miscarriages and IVF I am never showy about my children to people. Especially this friend or any friend I know has had struggles.

My mum and inlaws are generally the only people who would ever get photos, unless it was a friend who showed an active interest.

As for moaning about my children or mental health, I don't tend to do that either. The only reason she knew was because she popped around one day unexpectedly when I was having a particularly tough day and she saw jt for herself. So I opened up because she was there, and asked.

Since then, its been a bit of a mixed bag with her. I'll get offers for her to look after DD, while I take a break, or I'll try and arrange a walk and she'll message back about how she's off for a massage or a manicure or drinking in the bath, triggering for me, yes, but I don't ever send back pictures or comments about my #blessed life.

Am I regretting my choice to have children? Sometimes, not always. Just pregnant, have a toddler and am struggling. Just because I wanted children doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have depression. In fact, depression is common in people who have babies successfully through IVF, because they feel like they have to be grateful and happy all the time, and there isn't room for depression.

You mr friend is in mental pain OP. She is trying to protect herself.