To confront a friend who is showy about not having kids?

[fmac2987]

I have a 2 year old DD and am expecting our second in 8 weeks.

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children.

Its not like I had it easy. 4 losses followed by IVF and we were lucky enough to be successful with IVF, and even luckier still to be having another. But I am struggling hard with the terrible twos and perinatal depression and she knows it.

Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) but I feel like its salt in the wound right now.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

I really don't know how to manage this.

Is it unreasonable to back away from this weird situation?

reminded them how bloody lucky they really are

I can see why you'd back off, but you'd tell someone with perinatal depression that? Do you go round telling people with depression to cheer up? Those with anxiety to calm down?

[quote BigOlDingleSlinger69]@LuckySantangelo35

It’s quite obvious given your attitude here and need to believe these things. But I know you will have your reasons and maybe it’s easier to take this attitude than to deal with whatever the issue is. Different strokes.

All I have to add now is OP and friend should probably just fade the friendship out for everyone’s good.[/quote]
@BigOlDingleSlinger69

🤣 oh dear

Do you think I’m infertile and in deep mourning as a result and I’m projecting my “issues” by defending OPs friend.

You’re very wrong on all counts.

@LuckySantangelo35

I didn’t say I thought you were infertile.

Just that your projecting your issues around not having children onto this personal to OP situation.

@BigOlDingleSlinger69 what are my “issues around not having children” then? I’m honestly so interested in what you’re thinking with this!

@BigOlDingleSlinger69 shall we all ignore your projection here? Clearly a very sensitive topic for you given your defensiveness of OP. If PND is something you are or have struggled with, then I'm sorry and I'm sure that was a difficult time for you.

Also, can I remind you OP put this in AIBU, people are allowed to have differing views on the situation.

However much she is trying to convince you of how great her child free life is, she is very likely also trying to convince herself.

@LuckySantangelo35

That you don’t want them and have bought into the anger and projection that people who do have them are “jealous” or secretly regret them as a defense because you feel judged for your choice.

But really most people simply don’t care if you have kids or not.

@Eims88

I don’t have PND. And that you took that there as a little jab given OP does, simply because you were upset at me saying some people here are projecting their issues onto this thread (which you then tried to copy and say I was) does just further shows the mindset of anger and projection of some people on here.

@BigOlDingleSlinger69
I’m sorry but you’re so wrong. I’m not sure if you even really know what the word projection means based on that (or the fact that you’re displaying lots of projection of your own on this thread…)

[quote BigOlDingleSlinger69]@LuckySantangelo35

That you don’t want them and have bought into the anger and projection that people who do have them are “jealous” or secretly regret them as a defense because you feel judged for your choice.

But really most people simply don’t care if you have kids or not.[/quote]
But they do care. Just look at the comments on this thread about childless women.

If you are a woman without children then many other women judge you.

@LuckySantangelo35

What am I so wrong about?

@BigOlDingleSlinger69 and strangely you keep mentioning “anger” too but I really haven’t seen anyone displaying anger on this thread. Plenty are saying they disagree with OP and is their wont she posted asking for opinions, but no anger.

@BigOlDingleSlinger69
About whether or not I have kids. About my “issues”. About me feeling “anger”.
You’d make a terrible psychologist 🤣

@PriamFarrl
Very good point. Child free women are judged all the time. They must be infertile or unmaternal or shallow or selfish or unnatural or secretly in denial that deep down they really want kids, etc etc etc

[quote BigOlDingleSlinger69]@Eims88

I don’t have PND. And that you took that there as a little jab given OP does, simply because you were upset at me saying some people here are projecting their issues onto this thread (which you then tried to copy and say I was) does just further shows the mindset of anger and projection of some people on here.[/quote]
It most certainly was not a jab. I have a sister who is currently suffering with PND, and it not something I would ever ever take lightly or use a jab. And I hope no one else does.

Your posts are all over the place. Accusing people of one thing, making massive assumptions and generalisations, then doing the same thing yourself in your next post. It's all just a bit chaotic, and similar to another poster, I'm not sure you overly understand what projection means.

Really think we need more info, is OP coming back? Need more examples that just one pic she sent of her in the bath to judge whether she's trying to rub your face in it or not. So far it just looks like she's trying to enjoy life! A lot of parents certainly show off their lifestyle enough.

@BigOlDingleSlinger69 however it's a real shame you rushed to defend PND, but your dismissive and judgemental attitude towards infertility and fertility struggles is so incredibly insensitive.

11 pages and the Op hasn't been back!

I'm not sure friendships work well, at such different stages. I had my children way earlier than my sisters and my friends (even though we are similar ages).

I really tried not to talk too much about kid stuff, when mine were small, as it wasn't relevant to them. They never understood or sympathised with the tiredness of having small children (not understanding for eg. that going to bed at 4am is a killer if the baby could wake from 6am).

Anyway, fast forward many years and my children are now 25 & 22 and my sisters are in their late 40's and early 50's, and have 2 small children each (aged from 4 to 8), and they seem envious of my free time and holidays, and all they talk about are their children. You'd think they wrote the book on parenthood, even though they haven't even traversed the Teenage High School years, the University years and the rest of it.

Makes it hard to be on the same page, if I'm honest. And I feel like screaming, "Yes, I know, I was doing all of what you're doing now when we were in our 20's, and you were clubbing 3 times a week and I was at home!!"

@Eims88

I don’t have a “dismissive attitude to infertility struggles” and have never once commented on them. More anger over things that haven’t even been said.

As I’ve said it’s unfortunate that some posters with an axe to grind on the subject of children/childless have to take their anger/issues out on what is a personal situation to OP.

My SIL was a bit like this, she was infuriated that I was expecting and when DS was born she turned up like the grim reaper, glared at my sister’s children who at the time were 7, 5 and 6m old, before announcing that she’d rather have a holiday in Barbados than have kids. She was obviously hurting and lashing out as a result. However, this did put a lot of strain on our already strained relationship. You need to decide if you still want a friendship with her, she will most likely get over it but if she doesn’t do you want to continue a friendship with someone who is purposely trying to point out how great her life with the intention of making you feel bad.

@BigOlDingleSlinger69
Urgh even your choice of language is awful

“posters with an axe to grind on the subject of children/childless”

Childless…
You’ll be calling those that disagree with you barren next, that’s how antiquated your views are. This view that any woman who doesn’t have kids must be laden with “issues”, anger, jealousy, resentment, etc etc

@LuckySantangelo35

Can’t believe in this day and age there are people who cannot believe that some women genuinely don’t want kids and think that those that say they don’t want kids are just kidding themselves as deep down of course they do or they must have some sort of “issues” or “complex” about it

I had fertility issues. Along my journey I met many women who were unsuccessful after 15 plus ivf cycles including donor gametes. Never did one say they no longer wanted a child, many said that they had to stop tcc for their wellbeing or finances.

I'm one of the women who was told they would never conceive and spent a decade saying and trying to believe I didn't want children. Yet I did.

So I very much doubt a woman who put herself through ivf doesn't want a child now, but has just decided not to pursue the agonising journey that ivf is and the abject disappointment that bfns, chemical pregnancies and miscarriages hold.

@ChoiceMummy
Totally get what you are saying. And agree with what you are saying about OP’s friend. It’s more than I take umbrage with the views and assumptions some posters have expressed here in relation to women who don’t have children in general.

Wow @BigOlDingleSlinger69, that’s one massive chip on the shoulder you’re carrying around with you.