To confront a friend who is showy about not having kids?

[fmac2987]

I have a 2 year old DD and am expecting our second in 8 weeks.

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children.

Its not like I had it easy. 4 losses followed by IVF and we were lucky enough to be successful with IVF, and even luckier still to be having another. But I am struggling hard with the terrible twos and perinatal depression and she knows it.

Whenever we chat, on whatsapp or whatever she makes a massive point of showing off that she doesn't have any commitments and sends photos of her in the bath with wine, etc etc. Normally I'd be thinking that all this is coming from a place of pain (and it might be) but I feel like its salt in the wound right now.

So I backed away a stopped chatting as much and she's called me out on it by saying she thinks I'm jealous, and I shouldn't avoid her just because she doesn't have children and has a life.

I really don't know how to manage this.

Is it unreasonable to back away from this weird situation?

'For every picture she sends you of her bubble bath, you send her one of your children with the loved up emoji attached'. Fucking hell, again with the deliberate cruelty. Why, why the fuck would anyone do this? I'm biased, granted. Years of trying to have a baby, many miscarriages, and ridiculously early menopause have affected my opinion here. But the friend posting a photo in a bath (whilst cringy) wasn't designed to hurt to op. What you suggested is specifically designed to hurt the friend, in the way that hurts the absolute most.

@ButterfliesAndDaffodils

'For every picture she sends you of her bubble bath, you send her one of your children with the loved up emoji attached'. Fucking hell, again with the deliberate cruelty. Why, why the fuck would anyone do this? I'm biased, granted. Years of trying to have a baby, many miscarriages, and ridiculously early menopause have affected my opinion here. But the friend posting a photo in a bath (whilst cringy) wasn't designed to hurt to op. What you suggested is specifically designed to hurt the friend, in the way that hurts the absolute most.

The OP is probably already doing that I reckon, friend probably got sick of all the kid photos and dared show off her own life but that's not allowed because mothers get offended and are the only ones allowed to show off.

Yeah, @Firefly1987, been there. Made the mistake of mentioning that DH and I were going out for dinner and got the whole 'oh lovely, life must be so great when you don't have children'. Said by my sisters, who knowing that I'd just found out that I was in menopause, spent a whole night telling me how awful they found being parents. Then told me that I was lucky that at 34, I was no longer able to have children, because at least I wouldn't have to worry about accidental pregnancy, and that was great. And I wouldn't want children anyway. I've never forgiven them for that.

@ButterfliesAndDaffodils wow that is truly awful what horrible people they sound

@LuckySantangelo35

And this is exactly what I mean.

I know some women don’t want kids, OP knows it too (and also knows her friends history of formerly wanting kids), her friend is now acting in a way which is strange and is obviously related to OP having kids, yet posters show up on here jumping down her throat because she dared to bring up what she perceived to be a childless friends strange attitude toward her and children.

Nobody is saying you want kids. There is no need to be triggered by this thread, it is specific to OP.

I have a friend who is always quite positive on the surface about being childless. The reality is it's quite hard for her after multiple losses and heartache and she doesn't want to dwell on what could have been.

[quote BigOlDingleSlinger69]@LuckySantangelo35

And this is exactly what I mean.

I know some women don’t want kids, OP knows it too (and also knows her friends history of formerly wanting kids), her friend is now acting in a way which is strange and is obviously related to OP having kids, yet posters show up on here jumping down her throat because she dared to bring up what she perceived to be a childless friends strange attitude toward her and children.

Nobody is saying you want kids. There is no need to be triggered by this thread, it is specific to OP.[/quote]
@BigOlDingleSlinger69

Sorry, I’m confused. Who are you saying is “triggered” by this thread?

[quote BigOlDingleSlinger69]@LuckySantangelo35

And this is exactly what I mean.

I know some women don’t want kids, OP knows it too (and also knows her friends history of formerly wanting kids), her friend is now acting in a way which is strange and is obviously related to OP having kids, yet posters show up on here jumping down her throat because she dared to bring up what she perceived to be a childless friends strange attitude toward her and children.

Nobody is saying you want kids. There is no need to be triggered by this thread, it is specific to OP.[/quote]
I didn't read it the same way you did. This massively stood out to me:

I have a friend, who I know really wanted kids and went through a lot of try to have them, IVF etc, but has now decided with her current partner that they don't want children.

This is incredibly insensitive. "They don't want children". Why would they have really wanted them, gone through IVF etc (which is NOT easy), and then just decided they casually don't want them. They have decided no such thing. This decision was taken out of their hands. All they have done is come to terms with the hand they have been dealt. Would OP rather her friend was miserable, and crying and upset all the time? What kind of friend begrudges her friend who has had a horrific time of it, trying to enjoy her life?

To me this isn't a case of the OPs friend having issues with OPs children. It's OP having issues with her friends lifestyle. OP is suffering PND, she's miserable, not feeling herself. So in the same way many on here have jumped to say her friend is just jealous, I can't see that from the thread at all. All I can see is a struggling mum, jealous and missing the life she used to have, and taking this out on her friend.

I understand OP is going through a tough time, but given what she said about her friend, and adding in that she has chosen to discuss her PND with a friend who so desperately tried to have kids and couldn't, just shows to me the kind of person OP is. And I do not see her as the victim here at all. Her friend was right to call her out, she's acting very selfishly.

[quote BigOlDingleSlinger69]@LuckySantangelo35

And this is exactly what I mean.

I know some women don’t want kids, OP knows it too (and also knows her friends history of formerly wanting kids), her friend is now acting in a way which is strange and is obviously related to OP having kids, yet posters show up on here jumping down her throat because she dared to bring up what she perceived to be a childless friends strange attitude toward her and children.

Nobody is saying you want kids. There is no need to be triggered by this thread, it is specific to OP.[/quote]
Why is her friend acting strange by enjoying her life and sharing photos of herself having a good time? OP must've made it pretty obvious to friend that she was bothered by the pics for her friend to call her out on her jealousy. Sounds like friend was bang on with that assessment too! Childless/free people are allowed to share their lives too you know.

@Eims88

The fact that your talking about “what kind of person OP is” who deserves to be “called out” simply for talking less to someone whose acting strangely and making her uncomfortable is exactly what I’m talking about and shows the attitude I’m talking about. Literally nothing in OP’s posts suggests she is jealous or missing her old life and yet you want to assume that she misses her life and was happier before this.

Her friend sends her weird photos while they chat to show her what a great life she has (seriously why? OP never asked for photos of her in the bath that is truly weird) which OP is understandably wtf? ove. Then when OP reacts by talking to her less, this friend gets mad and calls OP jealous of her for not having children.

And you really don’t think her friends unsolicited child free lifestyle photos which just happened to coincide with OP’s situation, or her friend calling her jealous of her for not having children (despite OP wanting children) may possibly have something to do with her friend having wanted children and not being able to have them? This is clearly borne of her friends issues.

I don’t expect people who are triggered by this subject to see that, it’s a major blind spot for many.

@Firefly1987

How does it sound like her friend was right about OP being jealous of her friend being childless when OP actually wants and is having children?

OP never wanted bubble bath photos (who does that) and the friend clearly has issues stemming from her own situation.

Some people are really bringing their own issues and triggers into this topic as is usual.

[quote BigOlDingleSlinger69]@Eims88

The fact that your talking about “what kind of person OP is” who deserves to be “called out” simply for talking less to someone whose acting strangely and making her uncomfortable is exactly what I’m talking about and shows the attitude I’m talking about. Literally nothing in OP’s posts suggests she is jealous or missing her old life and yet you want to assume that she misses her life and was happier before this.

Her friend sends her weird photos while they chat to show her what a great life she has (seriously why? OP never asked for photos of her in the bath that is truly weird) which OP is understandably wtf? ove. Then when OP reacts by talking to her less, this friend gets mad and calls OP jealous of her for not having children.

And you really don’t think her friends unsolicited child free lifestyle photos which just happened to coincide with OP’s situation, or her friend calling her jealous of her for not having children (despite OP wanting children) may possibly have something to do with her friend having wanted children and not being able to have them? This is clearly borne of her friends issues.

I don’t expect people who are triggered by this subject to see that, it’s a major blind spot for many.[/quote]
So me making assumptions about OP is ridiculous.... yet the assumptions you've made about her friend are ok?

The hypocrisy in your post is honestly astounding.

You've heard one side of a story, and jumped to the defence of the mum, making assumptions which suit this narrative and have built a wall against any other criticism but claiming anyone who can see the other side of the situation must surely be blind to what's going on.

I don't think the friendship is healthy for either of them. OP is clearly not in a good place, and if it's the case that her friend also isn't , then they are just not good for eachother.

But I also think you clumping everyone in the same boat who shows a little empathy here is just a cop out and a way of trying to belittle any stance that doesn't suit the way you think.

@BigOlDingleSlinger69 I also find it telling that you've not responded to any of the people who said they do have kids but are sticking up for the friend in this situation.

@BigOlDingleSlinger69 but why shouldn’t OP’s Friend share pics from her life? I’m sure OP sends pics of her kids or puts family pics on social media etc. Why is it only mothers who can ‘show off’ their life? Why do child free people have to hide the fun and freedom they have?
Maybe I guess because lots of mums are so confident and secure and happy in their life choices as they and society would have us believe…

[quote BigOlDingleSlinger69]@Firefly1987

How does it sound like her friend was right about OP being jealous of her friend being childless when OP actually wants and is having children?

OP never wanted bubble bath photos (who does that) and the friend clearly has issues stemming from her own situation.

Some people are really bringing their own issues and triggers into this topic as is usual.[/quote]
Because OP doesn't like the pics her friend is sending her of her enjoying life. She has chosen to interpret them as some sort of brag about her childless life and said it feels like "salt in the wounds" so she's obviously bothered by her own admission! She's backed off the friendship because the pics bother her so much, if it's not jealousy what is it? Are childless people just not allowed to send pics of them enjoying life then? I don't think we really have the full story though, is the friend really making a point of showing off?

@LuckySantangelo35

And there it is again. “Maybe I guess because lots of Mums aren’t so confident and happy in their life choices as they and society would have us believe…”

No. They are. It is you who have the issue with them and are projected it onto them by starting to think they secretly envy you or OP’s friend. The friend here is doing the same with OP.

Those Mums don’t wish they were Childless and neither does OP, they’re not secretly jealous of a bubble bath. This is reality.

@Eims88

What people? I have no idea who does or doesn’t have kids. This is the kind of strange attitude I’m talking about which is revealing of people who have issues around this.

No. They are. It is you who have the issue with them and are projected it onto them by starting to think they secretly envy you or OP’s friend. The friend here is doing the same with OP.

Explain why the OP said it feels like "salt in the wounds" then?

[quote BigOlDingleSlinger69]@Eims88

What people? I have no idea who does or doesn’t have kids. This is the kind of strange attitude I’m talking about which is revealing of people who have issues around this.[/quote]
Very picky on what aspects of my post you replied to there.

Can I ask, since you find it awful that OPs friend has been sending her pictures of her in the bath with wine (we don't have context by the way, you've made it sound as if OP is telling her friend she's having a hard time and her friend is just ignoring her and replying with wine - we don't know this is the case), what is your opinion on OP discussing her PND, and her struggles atm with her friend? Do you think that is ok? Or do you think this is insensitive of OP to do? And would be seen as malicious and trying to rub it in her childless friends face? is there a difference between the two?

[quote BigOlDingleSlinger69]@LuckySantangelo35

And there it is again. “Maybe I guess because lots of Mums aren’t so confident and happy in their life choices as they and society would have us believe…”

No. They are. It is you who have the issue with them and are projected it onto them by starting to think they secretly envy you or OP’s friend. The friend here is doing the same with OP.

Those Mums don’t wish they were Childless and neither does OP, they’re not secretly jealous of a bubble bath. This is reality.[/quote]
@BigOlDingleSlinger69

I don’t know why you’re presuming I don’t have kids.

And some mothers are unhappy with their life choices. You see posts on here all the time from women who love their children desperately but if they could turn the clock back and reman child free they would

@Eims88

I wasn’t picky on anything. Literally your posts only point was that I hadn’t responded to people who said they had kids and sided with the friend. The haven’t even noticed anyone say they do have kids and I don’t care or factor that in at all.

Honestly when I was in the midst of multiple losses and many rounds of IVF if a friend had then started to lean on me about their perinatal depression And dealing with a toddler I'd have quietly backed off from the friendship and reminded them how bloody lucky they really are

Sending a photo of herself drinking wine in the bath is not the preserve of the childfree by the way - pretty sure most parents also do that so not sure why the OP is being overly sensitive over that one

And yes @BigOlDingleSlinger69 what do you make of Op’s ‘rubbing salt in the wounds’ comment?
If that not an admission of some jealousy I don’t know what is!

As a mum you can feel jealous of other people’s child free lives and still love your kids and be a good mother to them you know!

It’s not going to bring the patriarchy crashing down if you and other other women like you start admitting that!

@LuckySantangelo35

It’s quite obvious given your attitude here and need to believe these things. But I know you will have your reasons and maybe it’s easier to take this attitude than to deal with whatever the issue is. Different strokes.

All I have to add now is OP and friend should probably just fade the friendship out for everyone’s good.

OP, do you really believe that after all that angst she has 'just decided that she doesn't want children'? Or is it that she has settled for trying to make the best of what she does have?

You need to be the bigger person here, you have the prize she so desperately wanted.

Yes, they can be hard work but you chose to have them.